Apologetic Resources Against Dispensationalism?
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I found the series critiquing dispensationalism on the Reformed Forum very helpful. They address it from a covenantal and historic-redemptive perspective.
jwright82
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
What kind of dispensationalism are you talking about here? Is it Dallas Theological Seminary type, so they'll be aware of hermeneutics and systems of theology? Or is it "Left Behind" Fundamentalists type? Two different animals altogether.
My experience has only been with the second type. Vern Poythress's book "Understanding Dispensationalism" is a kinder/gentler take which actually deals with individual texts, which is key.
I've had these people stop me mid discussion and refuse to continue talking until I said the sinners prayer because they were convinced I was going to hell and not saved. Afterall if someone is truly saved and just opened up their Bible and read they would be de facto pretrib rapture "Left Behind" people.
I don't know your particular view on eschatology but just study the Scriptural basis for it because that's where they're going to want to do battle. Also beware of proof texting, they love that. I've had them say something like "a thousand years is a thousand years, interpret that any differently". I bring up other texts like the "when you see" statements to the disciples in the Olivet discourse only to hear "I don't care about those texts with their pronouns, interpret thousand different from thousand"? So try to focus on sections of scripture not individual verses. Remind them that there were no verses originally.
I say "want to do battle" not to imply that we ought to do battle with our (misguided) fellow believers but for them it is a battle for the Bible. Their Fundamentalist parents and grandparents saw the erosion of biblical doctrines because of Liberalism that pretended that scholarly meant doubting the fundamentals of the faith.
So any talk of history, theology, original cultural context, etc is going to sound like just what the liberals were saying and they're on guard. So they're attitude is understandable (even if misguided).
One avenue that I've recently stumbled upon, although I was aware of it in general before, is how the Bible interprets the Bible. If you could show how the old testament interprets the old testament (Gary Edward Schnitter's book on the subject) and the new testament's use of the old testament (Beale and Carson's commentary) that might be a new angle against it because who can argue with how the Bible interprets the Bible? If the Bible doesn't interpret itself the way they do than that may be convincing to rethink they're view.
I just got both books and they're amazing but I haven't thought about particularly discussing it with dispensationalist's. WTS media archives has some stuff by Poythress and Lillback (I think) on the subject. Hope this helps.
One last thing, look up Schofield's life. The guy was a crook a conman and he abandoned his family even after he was making money. Besides being guilty of plagiarism his introduction to his study bible tells you everything you need to know about they're mindset, he used in crafting his introduction (like a good conman) to take advantage of the mindset and fears of average lay Christians in America. After I read it like 5 months ago I remembered hearing sometime word for word what he said. Afterall if they happen to hate Calvin, at least he was never guilty of that stuff.
dsanch1120
Puritan Board Freshman
The plain reading of the text
dsanch1120
Puritan Board Freshman
In all seriousness, convincing people away from dispensationalism is a tough task. There’s presuppositions, not just about scripture, but about non-dispensational systems. Sam Storms book on amillennialism is actually pretty detailed in it’s arguments against dispensationalism.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Best to be familiar with the different varieties. And Poythress is a good start, since scholarly Dispensationalists respect him.
jwright82
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Yeah I agree. I try to look at the social, psychological, historical, etc place a person is in to determine how best to go about it. Since they'll almost refuse to discuss hermeneutics (because that sounds liberal to them) and just want to jump into the text (which is not a bad thing), we end up talking past one another.
Another unfounded distinction I've heard is having an allegorical interpretation.
I'll be honest I gave up those discussions for the most part years ago but with the two books I mentioned I can see perhaps a different angle that I've used (and for the most part failed with) before.
Before I tried hermeneutics first and they don't care for that it seems. Their viewpoint of (and this is just my experience) basically the Bible fell out of the sky into our laps and we should just "open it, read it, and believe it with a yes and amen Lord" attitude is hard to get around.
That's why I try (if and when I ever have this discussion again) to use sections of scripture instead of individual verses. So I can say "well you can have your verse and I'll take my whole section or book of scripture". That kind of points out how biblical each side is really being.
GulfCoast Presbyterian
Puritan Board Senior
Here are a few that I would recommend, as I found them helpful:
1) Biblical Eschatology by Jonathan Menn (2d Edition)(This book is simply excellent);
2) Understanding Dispensationalists-Dr. Vern Poythress;
3) A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times-Dr. Kim Riddelbarger.
There is also Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth by Dr. John Gerstner that deals extensively with the "original" form of dispensationalism, before it began to mutate a bit. I have found dispensationalists very difficult to have any dialog with on these issues. They usually start from the position of "if you don't agree with us, you are a liberal heretic." Good times!
1) Biblical Eschatology by Jonathan Menn (2d Edition)(This book is simply excellent);
2) Understanding Dispensationalists-Dr. Vern Poythress;
3) A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times-Dr. Kim Riddelbarger.
There is also Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth by Dr. John Gerstner that deals extensively with the "original" form of dispensationalism, before it began to mutate a bit. I have found dispensationalists very difficult to have any dialog with on these issues. They usually start from the position of "if you don't agree with us, you are a liberal heretic." Good times!
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
Honestly American Vision. I know Demar is getting weird but refuting Daniel's 70th week and having prophecy in context would solve nearly all dispensational problems. That's how I changed my views, the difference (or lack thereof) between the church and Israel that they promote came as a logical conclusion.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
Or Gentry, who is better: https://postmillennialworldview.com/
DanSSwing
Puritan Board Freshman
Agreed. I have some serious disagreements with Demar, but he's an amazing resource when he's right.
DanSSwing
Puritan Board Freshman
The first step to dealing with dispensationalists is to take away their newspapers and refer them to the Bible instead.
dsanch1120
Puritan Board Freshman
I think there’s also something to be said about joy. I’ve found a greater joy and comfort in the Old Testament under covenant theology than I ever did with dispensationalism. I’ve found a greater joy and awe in God seeing the great continuity between the two testaments and the one plan of salvation. It’s an amazing comfort to see the promise made to Abraham and know that I’ve been grafted into that, even though I’m a gentile. Just a thought.
Theoretical
Puritan Board Professor
Yep, I honestly used to not know what to do with the Prophets (beyond the obvious Messianic prophecies), other than the fact I knew they were Scripture, and I was only mildly Dispensationally-influenced. The last few years, the entire Old Testament has just exploded with brilliance because of growing understanding of covenant theology and redemptive history. I now see why Luther called Isaiah the 5th Gospel for instance.
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