Curse words

[ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

I was wondering where everyones stands on curse words? Are they inherently wrong in themselves?

[Edited on 26-10-2004 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

[Edited on 26-10-2004 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

This has been debated elsewhere on another thread but not yet resolved to my own personal satisfaction.

 

[fredtgreco]

Which thread?

 

[Me Died Blue]

Here is the thread. The discussion didn't really shift to being primarily about curse words until about the second page.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Yep, that's the thread I had in mind.

 

[govols]

Is it not a matter of the heart as well. I mean you can say regular words in a manner that is just a sinful as saying a curse word.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

I agree that the motivation behind the use of any word can potentially turn it into a sinful thing to say. I also very much believe that Christians ought to be prudent and not coarse in our language, and we ought to give account for the words we speak as we are called to speak that which is edifying.

I think the issue raised in the original question and in the earlier thread is whether there are certain words that are inherently sinful to use. As a challenge to that notion, I previously offered an example of the word "bloody" from the British context which makes it a swear word. In the American context, it is not so. What's the difference? Cultural association, I think. Words can be tricky things. They don't necessarily mean the same thing to everyone, although they may have a cultural connotation.

It is one thing to say that Christians should refrain from vulgar words, and it is another to define precisely what that means. If a curse word can be shown to violate one of the ten commandments, that's one thing. If not, how are we to judge it properly?

 

[alwaysreforming]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that yes, curse words ARE inherently wrong in themselves. I took a brief tour through the other post (ref. above) and can see there is some disagreement here. But I think when all the sophistry and debate over semantics is put away, one would have to discern that there is just something wrong with words such as... (fill in the blank).

Sure, there are other words that could be translated "dung", etc. and may be found in the Bible, but that's not the point. The point is that some words are inherently harsh, and ugly. That have no place in a Christian's vocabulary OR mind! Some words have a past in racial hatred, or at a whore house, or are associated with p0rnography, etc. You can rest assured that Jesus would NEVER use language such as that which will undoubtably be argued for by some Christians! Neither would you dare stand before the throne and utter such nonsense.

And of course there are some words which are not "so" bad, but they would still be better left unused by the Christian. Even as a Christian, I say two bad words (he**, and dam*). I can't tell you how embarrassed I've been by a NON-believer telling me to "watch my language."

Let your conscience be your guide. If you feel that something is on the edge of inappropriateness, then don't use it. If however, one's conscious says that even the most vulgar of words are not wrong, then one has a problem with his/her conscience!

Me two cents!

 

[turmeric]

Here's a related problem; as our culture gets less literate and becomes ahistorical, kids start using words which are vulgar, but they don't know it. I heard a sweet homeschooled young thing use a word the other night - when someone told her what it meant she was horrified! She & her friends had been using it some while.

Once I heard a youth minister trying to contextualize his message. He used the word "punk" as a verb. He did not mean what most of us of a certain generation would think, he meant " to emphatically bring something to one's attention". I explained my problem with the word after the service and left feeling guilty for bringing obscene associations to someone who wasn't thinking that way. Apparently the word has a different connotation now. What do we do - share our depraved associations to an ordinary word with naieve young things - or let it go?

 

[SmokingFlax]

Wow...I guess the word "punk" has another meaning then. I always considered it as meaning a touble making bully -usually more talk than action.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

My , for what it's worth. Christians should not be uttering curse words out of frustration. When I think of using curse words, I always think of the person who has to say a particular word or phrase just to blow off some steam or make himself feel better, or cast an insult upon someone or something that frustrates him. It is usually spoken in anger, despair, or frustration. Christians should not be doing that. It's simply a sign of a lack of self-control. We must control our tongues. We do not respond to stress the same way the world does. We understand that God controls all things, and should be at peace with God no matter what the circumstances. We should never feel desperate enough to utter nonsense just to make us feel better. That displays a lack of faith regarding that particular situation.

But, if it's simply a misunderstanding of the use of the words in conversation, then I think we can work through that.

 

[just_grace]

Basic Christian teaching.

It is written somewhere...

'Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk is totally inappropriate. Instead, let there be thanksgiving. For you know very well that no immoral or impure person, or anyone who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. '

I think sometimes people have their head so high in the theology clouds that they miss simple Christian things that are truly fruit.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Went to the store with a mennonite woman once (actually once of many seeing as we were part of the church) and she had asked me a question using a phrase that she meant financially, but "where I come from" it isn't so innocently used. I told her that she really shouldn't use it especially in public. Which led to why. Her comment back was to touch her covering and say "well, wouldn't THEY know (because of her covering) that I didn't mean it that way?" I said "no, they'd think you a hypocrite"

 

[bond-servant]

Originally posted by just_grace
It is written somewhere...

'Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk is totally inappropriate. Instead, let there be thanksgiving. For you know very well that no immoral or impure person, or anyone who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. '

I think sometimes people have their head so high in the theology clouds that they miss simple Christian things that are truly fruit.

Agreed. These verses come to mind:

"Abstain from all appearance of evil " (1Th 5:22 KJV)

Eph 5:4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. (NASB)

 

[gwine]

using a phrase that she meant financially

Ahhhh, the hardware question. I had to think for a while on this one.

As a challenge to that notion, I previously offered an example of the word "bloody" from the British context which makes it a swear word. In the American context, it is not so. What's the difference? Cultural association, I think.

This is one I am working on. My sons' former teacher was from South Africa and when she heard them use the word (in a Christian school !) she was shocked.

While I am not for PC thinking it would be good for us to consider the meaning of words in other cultures so that our speech would be gracious and full of truth.

Matthew 15

10 And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand:

11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

 

[just_grace]

Bad words...

Being a Brit I use the word bloody on occasion but only when outdoors rock climbing and I get stuck about 100 foot of the ground and I am leading a route, when I get worried and start to sweat, its seems a rather appropriate expletive, I used to use worse but I am a Christian now.

Bad language used to torment me in the UK, you hear it everywhere, I hated it. Here in France its just great, you never hear it unless you stumble across some Brits etc. Bad words here in France are merde which is basically a crude word for dung and putain which is a bit like the English f word but to me they mean nothing...its all in the mind and heart and the meanings that you attribute to words...for out of the heart comes...etc etc.

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by just_grace
Being a Brit I use the word bloody on occasion but only when outdoors rock climbing and I get stuck about 100 foot of the ground and I am leading a route, when I get worried and start to sweat, its seems a rather appropriate expletive, I used to use worse but I am a Christian now.

When I first started reading your post and got to the part about you being 100 ft off the ground, I was expecting you to talk about how you fell and cut your hand and screamed, "Look at my bloody hand! Pass me the first-aid kit!"...

(though, in England, would you instead say "Look at my bloody, bloody hand"?)

BTW. it sounds like you have a pretty interesting and fun hobby there. How long have you been rock climbing?

[Edited on 1-21-2005 by blhowes]

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by blhowes

Originally posted by just_grace
Being a Brit I use the word bloody on occasion but only when outdoors rock climbing and I get stuck about 100 foot of the ground and I am leading a route, when I get worried and start to sweat, its seems a rather appropriate expletive, I used to use worse but I am a Christian now.

When I first started reading your post and got to the part about you being 100 ft off the ground, I was expecting you to talk about how you fell and cut your hand and screamed, "Look at my bloody hand! Pass me the first-aid kit!"...

(though, in England, would you instead say "Look at my bloody, bloody hand"?)

BTW. it sounds like you have a pretty interesting and fun hobby there. How long have you been rock climbing?

[Edited on 1-21-2005 by blhowes]

About 5 years...it dangerous but as long as you do things by the book your ok ( bit like being a Christian actually, once I took a bible study in our house group on a climbing theme its amazing how you can fit things in like falling, rocks, protection, out on a limb, hard moves, friends etc etc).

The photo is at Garvarnie ( Pyrénées ) it was the first 250 meter pitch of a 3 stage climb, I had just come across a waterfall not much room for the feet, wet and cold I am soaked through in that picture. About 5 minutes later it started to thunder and lightning. 6 and half hours climbing and a 2 and a half hour walk down, I was shattered

[Edited on 1-21-2005 by just_grace]

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by just_grace
The photo is at Garvarnie ( Pyrénées ) it was the first 250 meter pitch of a 3 stage climb, I had just come across a waterfall not much room for the feet, wet and cold I am soaked through in that picture. About 5 minutes later it started to thunder and lightning. 6 and half hours climbing and a 2 and a half hour walk down, I was shattered

Sounds exciting. Its good that they took the picture before you started the 3-stage climb...in this picture, you're still smiling.

Uninformed question:
When you say, "250 meter pitch", what does that mean? Is that like a rise-over-run ratio, as in a slope of 250 meters in the vertical direction for every meter in the horizonal?

 

[Reformingstudent]

Originally posted by just_grace
Being a Brit I use the word bloody on occasion but only when outdoors rock climbing and I get stuck about 100 foot of the ground and I am leading a route, when I get worried and start to sweat, its seems a rather appropriate expletive, I used to use worse but I am a Christian now.

Bad language used to torment me in the UK, you hear it everywhere, I hated it. Here in France its just great, you never hear it unless you stumble across some Brits etc. Bad words here in France are merde which is basically a crude word for dung and putain which is a bit like the English f word but to me they mean nothing...its all in the mind and heart and the meanings that you attribute to words...for out of the heart comes...etc etc.

Is "bloody" a swear word in England? I'm not British But use that word a lot when upset and don't want to say sh** or S*O*B not as bad I once was as God in His mercy is still taming me. Might have to start doing like Elf and say "Son of a Nutcracker"

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by Keylife_fan]

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by Keylife_fan

Originally posted by just_grace
Being a Brit I use the word bloody on occasion but only when outdoors rock climbing and I get stuck about 100 foot of the ground and I am leading a route, when I get worried and start to sweat, its seems a rather appropriate expletive, I used to use worse but I am a Christian now.

Bad language used to torment me in the UK, you hear it everywhere, I hated it. Here in France its just great, you never hear it unless you stumble across some Brits etc. Bad words here in France are merde which is basically a crude word for dung and putain which is a bit like the English f word but to me they mean nothing...its all in the mind and heart and the meanings that you attribute to words...for out of the heart comes...etc etc.

Is "bloody" a swear word in England? I'm not British But use that word a lot when upset and don't want to say sh** or S*O*B not as bad I once was as God in His mercy is still taming me. Might have to start doing like Elf and say "Son of a Nutcracker"

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by Keylife_fan]

I would not say its a swear word...its an expletive thats for sure, some people say bloody nora or cor blimey...what did shaggy that character from scoobydoo used to say when surprised by some ghoul...'zikes' or something like that. Your conscience will tell you when you say something thats not good.

[Edited on 1-21-2005 by just_grace]

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by just_grace]

 

[ARStager]

I think that God gave both beer and 4-letter words to help us blow off steam, but that's just me. Stubbing my toe goes very well with a 4 letter beer...I mean...word.

 

[A.J.A.]

I read in George Marsden's biography that Jonathan Edwards, discussing shady finances, mentioned some townsmen trying to screw (his very word) their neighbors. From the pulpit!

Words tend to lose force over time, so that was probably some pretty rough language in those days.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Agreed. These verses come to mind:

"Abstain from all appearance of evil " (1Th 5:22 KJV)

Eph 5:4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. (NASB)

in my opinion that one verse pretty much sums it up.

 

[ChristianasJourney]

in my opinion - The Bible says you will be judged for every idle word you speak...but attitude has a lot to do with defining whether a word is good or bad...Maybe it has EVERYTHING to do with how it's defined. When I go to the dog show this weekend, I expect to hear the use of the word "b***h". But this word is used accurately and appropriately. On the other hand, if I'm yelling at my neighbor does it really matter what words that I'm using to express my displeasure or is it the attitude that's conveyed that will be judged. This is what I believe it means, at least in part, when it says "but if you say "'you fool' you are in danger of the fires of hell."

I do remember watching an old Mission Impossible show and realizing how one well-placed swear word conveyed more than a whole paragraph of dialog. I have the feeling that's the way Peter felt when the Rooster crowed. But of course, being expressive doesn't make it right.

Note: Swearing never is nor was a part of my vocabulary. I don't use it in my thoughts, so it's not hard to refrain from using them in practice.

ETA: Hmm, apparently PB doesn't recognize good old fashioned male farm animals in it's vocabularly. Of all the posts to get inadvertantly censored. But if my "Rooster" doesn't fit in with the KJV vocabulary you'll know why.

[Edited on 22-1-2005 by ChristianasJourney]

 

[ARStager]

A side note, not necessarily related: but did ya'll notice the ESV uses "whoredom" thrice in one verse in Hosea Chapter 1? My pastor pointed out that the Hebrew actually uses it 4 times, where it says "whoring whoredom".

Janice, why not type the word bitch when referring to a dog? Sorry, that's just funny to me.

A lot of these comments have boiled things down to the attitude with which things are done---including rebukes. On my blog, we've been discussing the rebuke of the idolator, and what words and attitudes are appropriate. "You foolish Galatians" is what Paul goes ahead and calls them, despite the Lord's warning. It's the "whoring whoredom" of God's chosen people that causes God to make Hosea's marriage a life-action-sermon. I remember a confused brother getting completely bent out of shape when I referred to the church as a whore being purified.

 

[ARStager]

Oh...it's because we're censored. Hmm.