Full Preterists

[calgal]

Can anyone give me more information on this heresy? TIA!

 

[2 Tim 4:2]

A Scriptural Critique of Full Preterism In Light of Matthew 24 and Related Passages

Full Preterist Studies

FULL PRETERISM : DENYING THE OBVIOUS

PARTIAL PRETERISM VS. FULL PRETERISM

Refuting Full Preterism

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The volume edited by Keith Mathison When Shall These Things Be? (published by P&R).

 

[RamistThomist]

old post by a friend of mine

1. When you hurt your back playing golf and your buddies look at you and say, "you got a bum glorified body, didn't you?," you might be a hyper-preterist.

2. If after lusting after a Playboy Playmate you go and teach that we were definitively sanctified in 70 AD, you might be a hyper-preterist.

3. If you say you take the time texts seriously but you don't hold that 1 John was written at 11:00 p.m. on 69 AD since it says, "we know it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18), you might be a hyper-preterist.

4. If you say that people weren't regenerate until 70 AD but it was already not yet, and then you read passages which speak of the saints loving God and his law (which the unregenerate cannot do), you might be a hyper-preterist.

5. If you think 70 AD was the most important event in history, rather than the cross, you might be a hyper-preterist.

6. If you have Gnostic tendencies, you might be a hyper-preterist.

7. If you've never read Calvin, Hodge, Warfield, Edwards, Turretin, Witsius, Owen, Murray, Van Til, Vos, et al, you might be a hyper-preterist.

8. If you've read them, and the every other Christian position on the resurrection and the second advent, and you say they're all wrong and you're all correct, you might be a hyper-preterist.

9. If you think you're reformed and hold that God has elected a certain number of people to everlasting life, but yet you think the earth will last forever with people entering into the city, for eternity, you might be a hyper-preterist.

10. If you have a blank look on your face, with glassy eyes, you might be a hyper-preterist.

11. If your family members need to hire people to "get you out," you might be a hyper-preterist.

12. If your position leads to the position that Jesus needed regeneration since he was resurrected, you might be a hyper-preterist.

13. If you get kicked out of every church you go to, you might be a hyper-preterist.

14. If your creed is that you have no creed, you might be a hyper-preterist.

15. If you say that "the end of ALL things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7) means ALL things, but the fulfillment of EVERY vision without delay (Ez. 12:21-28) does not mean EVERY vision, you might be a hyper-preterist.

16. If your teaching is gangrenous, you might be a hyper-preterist.

17. If you still take the lord's supper even though one reason it was to be taken was in order to "proclaim His death until He comes," you might be a hyper-preterist.

18. If you constantly bombard people with e-mails, you might be a hyper-preterist.

19. If your previous theological bents have been other heretical positions (i.e., the Church of Christ's), you might be a hyper-preterist.

20. If you make yourself feel better by saying, at one time people thought the reformers were heretics, you might be a hyper-preterist.

21. If your two favorite sayings are: (1)Reformed and always reforming and (2) sola scriptura, even though you misrepresent what those mean, you might be a hyper-preterist.

22. If you live in Florida, you might be a hyper-preterist.

23. If you're a fan of "New Covenant Theology," you might be a hyper-preterist.

24. If you think Jesus will kick it with Enoch and Elijah for eternity while the rest of us will float around as disembodied spirits after we phsyically die, you might be a hyper-preterist.

25. If you think that we'll still sin after we die since definitive sanctification has already occurred, you might be a hyper-preterist.

26. If you think that God will live in eternity with active sinners, forever, you might be a hyper-preterist.

27. If you have no education, you might be a hyper-preterist.

28. If you only focus on eschatology, you might be a hyper-preterist.

29. If you can't get off the milk and chew some meat, you might be a hyper-preterist.

30. If you deny Christ's full work of redemption (e.g., the phsyical He made good also needs redemption), you might be a hyper-preterist.

31. If you think that Don Preston "is the man" because he rambles off basic two-premiss syllogisms, you might be a hyper-preterist.

32. If this is the new heavens and earth and you have your glorified body, and upon realizing this if you're not depressed and feeling cheated, you might be a hyper-preterist.

33. If you've had to define what a Christian is and this definition lets just about any wacko into the camp, you might be a hyper-preterist.

 

[Blueridge Believer]

old post by a friend of mine

1. When you hurt your back playing golf and your buddies look at you and say, "you got a bum glorified body, didn't you?," you might be a hyper-preterist.

2. If after lusting after a Playboy Playmate you go and teach that we were definitively sanctified in 70 AD, you might be a hyper-preterist.

3. If you say you take the time texts seriously but you don't hold that 1 John was written at 11:00 p.m. on 69 AD since it says, "we know it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18), you might be a hyper-preterist.

4. If you say that people weren't regenerate until 70 AD but it was already not yet, and then you read passages which speak of the saints loving God and his law (which the unregenerate cannot do), you might be a hyper-preterist.

5. If you think 70 AD was the most important event in history, rather than the cross, you might be a hyper-preterist.

6. If you have Gnostic tendencies, you might be a hyper-preterist.

7. If you've never read Calvin, Hodge, Warfield, Edwards, Turretin, Witsius, Owen, Murray, Van Til, Vos, et al, you might be a hyper-preterist.

8. If you've read them, and the every other Christian position on the resurrection and the second advent, and you say they're all wrong and you're all correct, you might be a hyper-preterist.

9. If you think you're reformed and hold that God has elected a certain number of people to everlasting life, but yet you think the earth will last forever with people entering into the city, for eternity, you might be a hyper-preterist.

10. If you have a blank look on your face, with glassy eyes, you might be a hyper-preterist.

11. If your family members need to hire people to "get you out," you might be a hyper-preterist.

12. If your position leads to the position that Jesus needed regeneration since he was resurrected, you might be a hyper-preterist.

13. If you get kicked out of every church you go to, you might be a hyper-preterist.

14. If your creed is that you have no creed, you might be a hyper-preterist.

15. If you say that "the end of ALL things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7) means ALL things, but the fulfillment of EVERY vision without delay (Ez. 12:21-28) does not mean EVERY vision, you might be a hyper-preterist.

16. If your teaching is gangrenous, you might be a hyper-preterist.

17. If you still take the lord's supper even though one reason it was to be taken was in order to "proclaim His death until He comes," you might be a hyper-preterist.

18. If you constantly bombard people with e-mails, you might be a hyper-preterist.

19. If your previous theological bents have been other heretical positions (i.e., the Church of Christ's), you might be a hyper-preterist.

20. If you make yourself feel better by saying, at one time people thought the reformers were heretics, you might be a hyper-preterist.

21. If your two favorite sayings are: (1)Reformed and always reforming and (2) sola scriptura, even though you misrepresent what those mean, you might be a hyper-preterist.

22. If you live in Florida, you might be a hyper-preterist.

23. If you're a fan of "New Covenant Theology," you might be a hyper-preterist.

24. If you think Jesus will kick it with Enoch and Elijah for eternity while the rest of us will float around as disembodied spirits after we phsyically die, you might be a hyper-preterist.

25. If you think that we'll still sin after we die since definitive sanctification has already occurred, you might be a hyper-preterist.

26. If you think that God will live in eternity with active sinners, forever, you might be a hyper-preterist.

27. If you have no education, you might be a hyper-preterist.

28. If you only focus on eschatology, you might be a hyper-preterist.

29. If you can't get off the milk and chew some meat, you might be a hyper-preterist.

30. If you deny Christ's full work of redemption (e.g., the phsyical He made good also needs redemption), you might be a hyper-preterist.

31. If you think that Don Preston "is the man" because he rambles off basic two-premiss syllogisms, you might be a hyper-preterist.

32. If this is the new heavens and earth and you have your glorified body, and upon realizing this if you're not depressed and feeling cheated, you might be a hyper-preterist.

33. If you've had to define what a Christian is and this definition lets just about any wacko into the camp, you might be a hyper-preterist.

This is a classic!

 

[CDM]

old post by a friend of mine

1. When you hurt your back playing golf and your buddies look at you and say, "you got a bum glorified body, didn't you?," you might be a hyper-preterist.

2. If after lusting after a Playboy Playmate you go and teach that we were definitively sanctified in 70 AD, you might be a hyper-preterist.

3. If you say you take the time texts seriously but you don't hold that 1 John was written at 11:00 p.m. on 69 AD since it says, "we know it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18), you might be a hyper-preterist.

4. If you say that people weren't regenerate until 70 AD but it was already not yet, and then you read passages which speak of the saints loving God and his law (which the unregenerate cannot do), you might be a hyper-preterist.

5. If you think 70 AD was the most important event in history, rather than the cross, you might be a hyper-preterist.

6. If you have Gnostic tendencies, you might be a hyper-preterist.

7. If you've never read Calvin, Hodge, Warfield, Edwards, Turretin, Witsius, Owen, Murray, Van Til, Vos, et al, you might be a hyper-preterist.

8. If you've read them, and the every other Christian position on the resurrection and the second advent, and you say they're all wrong and you're all correct, you might be a hyper-preterist.

9. If you think you're reformed and hold that God has elected a certain number of people to everlasting life, but yet you think the earth will last forever with people entering into the city, for eternity, you might be a hyper-preterist.

10. If you have a blank look on your face, with glassy eyes, you might be a hyper-preterist.

11. If your family members need to hire people to "get you out," you might be a hyper-preterist.

12. If your position leads to the position that Jesus needed regeneration since he was resurrected, you might be a hyper-preterist.

13. If you get kicked out of every church you go to, you might be a hyper-preterist.

14. If your creed is that you have no creed, you might be a hyper-preterist.

15. If you say that "the end of ALL things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7) means ALL things, but the fulfillment of EVERY vision without delay (Ez. 12:21-28) does not mean EVERY vision, you might be a hyper-preterist.

16. If your teaching is gangrenous, you might be a hyper-preterist.

17. If you still take the lord's supper even though one reason it was to be taken was in order to "proclaim His death until He comes," you might be a hyper-preterist.

18. If you constantly bombard people with e-mails, you might be a hyper-preterist.

19. If your previous theological bents have been other heretical positions (i.e., the Church of Christ's), you might be a hyper-preterist.

20. If you make yourself feel better by saying, at one time people thought the reformers were heretics, you might be a hyper-preterist.

21. If your two favorite sayings are: (1)Reformed and always reforming and (2) sola scriptura, even though you misrepresent what those mean, you might be a hyper-preterist.

22. If you live in Florida, you might be a hyper-preterist.

23. If you're a fan of "New Covenant Theology," you might be a hyper-preterist.

24. If you think Jesus will kick it with Enoch and Elijah for eternity while the rest of us will float around as disembodied spirits after we phsyically die, you might be a hyper-preterist.

25. If you think that we'll still sin after we die since definitive sanctification has already occurred, you might be a hyper-preterist.

26. If you think that God will live in eternity with active sinners, forever, you might be a hyper-preterist.

27. If you have no education, you might be a hyper-preterist.

28. If you only focus on eschatology, you might be a hyper-preterist.

29. If you can't get off the milk and chew some meat, you might be a hyper-preterist.

30. If you deny Christ's full work of redemption (e.g., the phsyical He made good also needs redemption), you might be a hyper-preterist.

31. If you think that Don Preston "is the man" because he rambles off basic two-premiss syllogisms, you might be a hyper-preterist.

32. If this is the new heavens and earth and you have your glorified body, and upon realizing this if you're not depressed and feeling cheated, you might be a hyper-preterist.

33. If you've had to define what a Christian is and this definition lets just about any wacko into the camp, you might be a hyper-preterist.

This is a classic!

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

13. If you get kicked out of every church you go to, you might be a hyper-preterist.

Interestingly, in the volume I recommended above, Doug Wilson makes the incredible suggestion that hyper-preterists should be tolerated as members in orthodox churches as long as they don't spread their ideas.

 

[KMK]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

 

[Blueridge Believer]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

I would tend to agree with you brother. However, in the case of full preterism, most regard it as heresy and not error. in my opinion, anyone who denies the bodily ressurection of the dead must either recant or be excommunicated.

 

[Dr Mike Kear]

33. If you've had to define what a Christian is and this definition lets just about any wacko into the camp, you might be a hyper-preterist.

I find it interesting that those who hold to hyper-preterism for any length of time seem drawn, at some point, to consider Universalism. Perhaps it is but a short step. And the number of hyper-preterists who have gone ahead and taken that step seems to be dramatically increasing of late.

 

[caddy]

old post by a friend of mine

1. When you hurt your back playing golf and your buddies look at you and say, "you got a bum glorified body, didn't you?," you might be a hyper-preterist.

2. If after lusting after a Playboy Playmate you go and teach that we were definitively sanctified in 70 AD, you might be a hyper-preterist.

3. If you say you take the time texts seriously but you don't hold that 1 John was written at 11:00 p.m. on 69 AD since it says, "we know it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18), you might be a hyper-preterist.

4. If you say that people weren't regenerate until 70 AD but it was already not yet, and then you read passages which speak of the saints loving God and his law (which the unregenerate cannot do), you might be a hyper-preterist.

5. If you think 70 AD was the most important event in history, rather than the cross, you might be a hyper-preterist.

6. If you have Gnostic tendencies, you might be a hyper-preterist.

7. If you've never read Calvin, Hodge, Warfield, Edwards, Turretin, Witsius, Owen, Murray, Van Til, Vos, et al, you might be a hyper-preterist.

8. If you've read them, and the every other Christian position on the resurrection and the second advent, and you say they're all wrong and you're all correct, you might be a hyper-preterist.

9. If you think you're reformed and hold that God has elected a certain number of people to everlasting life, but yet you think the earth will last forever with people entering into the city, for eternity, you might be a hyper-preterist.

10. If you have a blank look on your face, with glassy eyes, you might be a hyper-preterist.

11. If your family members need to hire people to "get you out," you might be a hyper-preterist.

12. If your position leads to the position that Jesus needed regeneration since he was resurrected, you might be a hyper-preterist.

13. If you get kicked out of every church you go to, you might be a hyper-preterist.

14. If your creed is that you have no creed, you might be a hyper-preterist.

15. If you say that "the end of ALL things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7) means ALL things, but the fulfillment of EVERY vision without delay (Ez. 12:21-28) does not mean EVERY vision, you might be a hyper-preterist.

16. If your teaching is gangrenous, you might be a hyper-preterist.

17. If you still take the lord's supper even though one reason it was to be taken was in order to "proclaim His death until He comes," you might be a hyper-preterist.

18. If you constantly bombard people with e-mails, you might be a hyper-preterist.

19. If your previous theological bents have been other heretical positions (i.e., the Church of Christ's), you might be a hyper-preterist.

20. If you make yourself feel better by saying, at one time people thought the reformers were heretics, you might be a hyper-preterist.

21. If your two favorite sayings are: (1)Reformed and always reforming and (2) sola scriptura, even though you misrepresent what those mean, you might be a hyper-preterist.

22. If you live in Florida, you might be a hyper-preterist.

23. If you're a fan of "New Covenant Theology," you might be a hyper-preterist.

24. If you think Jesus will kick it with Enoch and Elijah for eternity while the rest of us will float around as disembodied spirits after we phsyically die, you might be a hyper-preterist.

25. If you think that we'll still sin after we die since definitive sanctification has already occurred, you might be a hyper-preterist.

26. If you think that God will live in eternity with active sinners, forever, you might be a hyper-preterist.

27. If you have no education, you might be a hyper-preterist.

28. If you only focus on eschatology, you might be a hyper-preterist.

29. If you can't get off the milk and chew some meat, you might be a hyper-preterist.

30. If you deny Christ's full work of redemption (e.g., the phsyical He made good also needs redemption), you might be a hyper-preterist.

31. If you think that Don Preston "is the man" because he rambles off basic two-premiss syllogisms, you might be a hyper-preterist.

32. If this is the new heavens and earth and you have your glorified body, and upon realizing this if you're not depressed and feeling cheated, you might be a hyper-preterist.

33. If you've had to define what a Christian is and this definition lets just about any wacko into the camp, you might be a hyper-preterist.

This is a classic!

...that's good stuff there!

 

[caddy]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

Good point....

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

Ken

This is not just an error, it is a damnable heresy as it denies the resurrection of the body (1 Cor. 15). It is not a matter of policing people's thoughts as such, but of keeping those without a credible profession of faith out of church membership - for the good of their own soul.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

I would tend to agree with you brother. However, in the case of full preterism, most regard it as heresy and not error. in my opinion, anyone who denies the bodily ressurection of the dead must either recant or be excommunicated.

Well said brother.

 

[RamistThomist]

"You might be, if..." was from an old Paul Manata blog post.

 

[KMK]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

I would tend to agree with you brother. However, in the case of full preterism, most regard it as heresy and not error. in my opinion, anyone who denies the bodily ressurection of the dead must either recant or be excommunicated.

I think you might be painting them with a bit of a broad brush here. I think hyper-preterists would argue that it is a bodily resurrection, but looks a little different than our current bodies. They would point out that the resurrected Jesus is able to appear and disappear and walk through walls etc. (I am not defending their argument)

BTW, I do not think we should refer to them as 'full-preterists'. This plays right into their hands because it makes them sound mainstream and 'consistant', whereas the orthodox preterist is 'inconsistent'. I think we should refer to them as 'hyper' because they 'go beyond' orthodoxy.

 

[Amazing Grace]

Anyone familiar with Mike Krall? He has some good links on his page, but is he hyper preterist? Very solid on soteriology...

 

[Poimen]

Could someone please state in one sentence what full preterists believe happens to us when we die? Body and soul?

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Could someone please state in one sentence what full preterists believe happens to us when we die? Body and soul?

Your physical body rots in the earth never to rise and you recieve a spirtual body for heaven which is the eternal state.

 

[Poimen]

Could someone please state in one sentence what full preterists believe happens to us when we die? Body and soul?

Your physical body rots in the earth never to rise and you recieve a spirtual body for heaven which is the eternal state.

At least they are being consistent. Is there such a thing as the new heavens and new earth? Do we reign on earth as well as heaven?

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Could someone please state in one sentence what full preterists believe happens to us when we die? Body and soul?

Your physical body rots in the earth never to rise and you recieve a spirtual body for heaven which is the eternal state.

At least they are being consistent. Is there such a thing as the new heavens and new earth? Do we reign on earth as well as heaven?

Heaven is the new heavens and new earth to them. As far as I understand them there is no kind of millennium here on earth, beit pre, post or amill. Also the judgment took place in AD 70. This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

 

[Poimen]

This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

Well that is what I thought... very strange.

Thanks for the summary. I guess I will have to study this issue a little more but I have to say that I have never encountered it in my ministry either directly or indirectly.

 

[KMK]

Your physical body rots in the earth never to rise and you recieve a spirtual body for heaven which is the eternal state.

At least they are being consistent. Is there such a thing as the new heavens and new earth? Do we reign on earth as well as heaven?

Heaven is the new heavens and new earth to them. As far as I understand them there is no kind of millennium here on earth, beit pre, post or amill. Also the judgment took place in AD 70. This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

Actually they are postmillenialists in that they believe the millennium was the period of time between Christ and AD 70.

I don't think this is what they all believe. Like preterism and dispensationalism, hyper-preterism is still a rather new system and is in flux. At least that has been my experience.

 

[Amazing Grace]

At least they are being consistent. Is there such a thing as the new heavens and new earth? Do we reign on earth as well as heaven?

Heaven is the new heavens and new earth to them. As far as I understand them there is no kind of millennium here on earth, beit pre, post or amill. Also the judgment took place in AD 70. This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

Actually they are postmillenialists in that they believe the millennium was the period of time between Christ and AD 70.

I don't think this is what they all believe. Like preterism and dispensationalism, hyper-preterism is still a rather new system and is in flux. At least that has been my experience.

Paul considered Hymenaeus and Philetus as having made ship-wreck of men's faith by saying the resurrection is past ( 2 Tim. 2:17-18 ). A wrong view of the resurrection is a serious matter to Paul.

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

So it actually is not a new system technically.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Heaven is the new heavens and new earth to them. As far as I understand them there is no kind of millennium here on earth, beit pre, post or amill. Also the judgment took place in AD 70. This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

so...this present Earth is what, Hell?

 

[KMK]

Heaven is the new heavens and new earth to them. As far as I understand them there is no kind of millennium here on earth, beit pre, post or amill. Also the judgment took place in AD 70. This world, along with sin, death and rebellion against God continues for eternity.

Actually they are postmillenialists in that they believe the millennium was the period of time between Christ and AD 70.

I don't think this is what they all believe. Like preterism and dispensationalism, hyper-preterism is still a rather new system and is in flux. At least that has been my experience.

Paul considered Hymenaeus and Philetus as having made ship-wreck of men's faith by saying the resurrection is past ( 2 Tim. 2:17-18 ). A wrong view of the resurrection is a serious matter to Paul.

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

So it actually is not a new system technically.

True enough! Are there really any 'new' errors? Or just 'old' errors in new clothing?

(BTW, hyper-preterists would say that Hymenaeus was in error because at that time the resurrection was still future but they are not because the resurrection was past.)

 

[calgal]

Thanks! I had an encounter with a full preterist and was chewed out for being "mean" to the poor preterist by some other folks on the email list. A friend described hyper preterists as being too close to damnable heresy.

 

[Jim Johnston]

I don't see how a church can be expected to police the sheep's thoughts! If we excommunicated everyone who believed an error, we would have a church of one. Belief in an error, as unfortunate as it is, is not grounds for discipline. Spreading that belief and causing division is. In fact, I have admiration and hope for the man who can say, "Well, I don't agree but I am going to keep my mouth shut for the sake of church unity." (I've had to keep my mouth shut before, as I assume Rich must do now)

Hyper-preterists believe the resurection of the dead already happened. So....

1 Tim. 1:18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

What did Hymenaeus believe?

Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

So, this isn't policing thoughts. In order for Wison to say that they can stay at the church as long as they don't teach is to say he *knows* what they believe.

What they believe is "gangrenous."

Cut the gangrene out. Don't let it spread. Use a butter knife if need be.

 

[Jim Johnston]

I think you might be painting them with a bit of a broad brush here. I think hyper-preterists would argue that it is a bodily resurrection, but looks a little different than our current bodies. They would point out that the resurrected Jesus is able to appear and disappear and walk through walls etc. (I am not defending their argument)

Jesus was a physical model or picture of the resurrection that will happen to us, they say. The actually say that the "resurrection of the dead" is what we'd call "regeneration." They believe that you are resurrected in the final resurrection from the dead sense. That's the majority belief, the party line. Here's from a Hyper-preterist discussion board:

"The passage you quoted does not say that "the resurrection of Jesus BODY begat in us a hope." It is speaking to the resurrection of Jesus THE PERSON."

"The “personal” resurrection of Jesus proved that He overcame death (“spiritual death”, our spiritual death) and is what birthed the hope."

(Not providing the link, for obvious reasons.)

 

[Jim Johnston]

Anyone familiar with Mike Krall? He has some good links on his page, but is he hyper preterist? Very solid on soteriology...

I am. Last I knew he was a hard core hyper-preterist.

I interacted with him in "Z" on this list of arguments of mine:

Triablogue: Two Dozen (or so) Orthodox Arguments Against Hyper-Preterism