Joyce Meyer

[toddpedlar]

I think the parallel isn't bad, really.

That being said, I can't continue to harp on the same things. By going I think you are making a huge mistake. Apart from the clear problems already presented you (1 being her heretical teaching that you'd be listening to and 2 being the fact that she is presuming to teach the audience she does) there is this - you will find that in going you'll have lost a lot of traction with your friends should you ever hope to guide them to the truth. Why would they believe you when you say that JM teaches heresy if you went alongside them and agreed to sit under that teaching? Why would they believe you when you try to teach them about the unBiblical nature of women who claim to be pastor/teachers? You're losing all kinds of credibility in going. You also (and this was brought up before but I think is in need of reiteration) are giving your wife mixed messages and not helping her out in leading, especially if she is prone to like what she hears from JM.

I don't know what you mean by "it went as I expected" - I assume you mean that your wife didn't take the news well. I hope, though, that you presented it firmly. I think along with everyone else here that it is really, really, really a huge mistake to go and accept this woman's teaching (even if you go home and do a post-mortem). Your going says to your wife and to your friends that you think there's a worthy reason to sit under that teaching.

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Nothing good can come from having anything whatsover to do with Joyce Meyer.

I don't know, if you were her neighbor, and her dog came over and did his business on your lawn, maybe it'd be greener. That would be good, right?

Depends what she feeds it. High acid levels might kill the grass.

 

[WarrenInSC]

[/U]
Now, I'm not tracking who saw The Passion and who is posting the "Nay" in this thread to find discrepancy or hypocrisy, but is the parallel warranted or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something - watching a movie is potentially light years different from deliberately sitting under a live false teacher, and validating her with your presence 'sitting under her teaching'. Don't understand how you could compare the two.

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Would people who would refuse to see Joyce Meyer also refuse to go to a university lecture on a topic they disagreed with or, for example, attend a relatives graduation where the key note address is from someone you disagreed with?

Isn't there a way to simply protect yourself from their influence while using the topic as an opening to discussion?

 

[kalawine]

He's OK

Having been a Charismatic myself for several years I was once cornered by some ladies at our Church who were going to see her and wanted my opinion of Joyce Meyer. My reply was, "Joyce? Oh HE'S OK."

Needless to say I was looked at as if I'd just blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Ever wonder if she teaches through the Bible and how she handles Passage: 1 Corinthians 14:34 (ESV Bible Online)

 

[gene_mingo]

Would people who would refuse to see Joyce Meyer also refuse to go to a university lecture on a topic they disagreed with or, for example, attend a relatives graduation where the key note address is from someone you disagreed with?

Isn't there a way to simply protect yourself from their influence while using the topic as an opening to discussion?

Does the Prof. or keynote speaker profess to be a minister of the gospel and that the functions are for preaching the gospel?

 

[WarrenInSC]

Would people who would refuse to see Joyce Meyer also refuse to go to a university lecture on a topic they disagreed with or, for example, attend a relatives graduation where the key note address is from someone you disagreed with?

Isn't there a way to simply protect yourself from their influence while using the topic as an opening to discussion?

Since the purposes of the different events you mention are entirely different (religious/faith based, versus academic -where there is no assumption the attendees are there in unity of faith), that's apples and kiwi fruit.

 

[D. Paul]

[/U]
Now, I'm not tracking who saw The Passion and who is posting the "Nay" in this thread to find discrepancy or hypocrisy, but is the parallel warranted or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something - watching a movie is potentially light years different from deliberately sitting under a live false teacher, and validating her with your presence 'sitting under her teaching'. Don't understand how you could compare the two.

Because people "validated" Mel Gibson's presentation with the "deliberate" $7.50 price of admission and sat for 3 hours under THAT "teaching". To say it was not Roman Catholic propaganda would be quite short-sighted. Again, people who had done their homework and heard the critiques of the movie still went to see it.

There were reasons I presented to people so that they would NOT see The Passion just like I have stated to my wife and friends the reasons why we should not give an ear to the WordFaith garbage. We should drive them all from the "pulpit" in my opinion, but still they thrive. But they do not thrive on my account.

 

[Theognome]

Personally, I never saw the movie. However, I don't see much of a parallel. Although many folk may deride both, it is for different reasons. The Passion is not a woman 'preacher' leading a heretical 'worship' service, nor is Meyer a movie showing iconic images of sometimes questionable doctrines.

Theognome

True, but in either cases, folks know going in what they will witness. In neither case is Biblical Doctrine being upheld or taught.

Issues of conscience come into play here. Although The Passion can be (and probably correctly) described as Catholic propaganda, the medium is still of entertainment as opposed to worship. Meyer, though perhaps entertaining at some level, does not strive within that medium but instead purports to be a Christian leader. Scruples may keep many if not most Reformed folk from both, but at the same time Freedom in Christ and convictions may allow some to view entertainment without necessarily being in sin for it- though some folks may indeed be in sin for viewing such a movie.

I have watched movies knowing full well that they do not support Orthodox doctrine but have been entertained none-the-less; for entertainment alone was what I was seeking while straining out the garbage. I can't say the same for a heretic on a stage- the mockery of Christ is more than I can bear. Perhaps some have the strength of faith to do both, but I am not one of them.

Theognome

 

[WarrenInSC]

I have watched movies knowing full well that they do not support Orthodox doctrine but have been entertained none-the-less; for entertainment alone was what I was seeking while straining out the garbage. I can't say the same for a heretic on a stage- the mockery of Christ is more than I can bear. Perhaps some have the strength of faith to do both, but I am not one of them.

Theognome

 

[TimV]

Who's Joyce Meyer?

 

[CDM]

Who's Joyce Meyer?

A woman preacher...shall I go on?

Ok, I will

She's a tongue-speaking, devil-rebuking, name-it-and-claim-it, charismatic / pentecostalist. An extremely wealthy peddler of the prosperity gospel. . .

. . . And as Paul would say "reprobate concerning the faith" (2 Tim 3:8).

And while I'm at it, I do not see how any Christian can attend one of her wicked, devil worshipping, blasphemous false-gospel fests and think that God is pleased. (Before you ask, yes, this is the nicest way I can say it)

 

[Knoxienne]

I wanna go on a Pastor John Weaver cruise. Tybee Island, BABY!!!

Hey we could all go and check in on Honor!

True!

 

[puritan lad]

Tell her you are going to take her out for a romantic dinner and good movie, instead.

Amen. Or get her consider how much good beer that you could buy instead of a JM Ticket.

 

[Knoxienne]

Tell her you are going to take her out for a romantic dinner and good movie, instead.

Amen. Or get her consider how much good beer that you could buy instead of a JM Ticket.

Or good s!!!

 

[BobVigneault]

Hey Chris, get off the fence and tell us what you really think. Your description reminds me of the wonderful opening scene in The Music Man with the rhythm of the train keeping cadence with the salesmen's rap. Joyce Meyer could be compared to Harold Hill:

"She's just a bang beat, bell ringing, big haul, great go, neck or nothin, rip roarin, every time a bull's eye salesman."

Oh yeah, and I'll throw in that she's a 'two bit thimble rigger' as well.

Who's Joyce Meyer?

A woman preacher...shall I go on?

Ok, I will

She's a tongue-speaking, devil-rebuking, name-it-and-claim-it, charismatic / pentecostalist. An extremely wealthy peddler of the prosperity gospel. . .

. . . And as Paul would say "reprobate concerning the faith" (2 Tim 3:8).

And while I'm at it, I do not see how any Christian can attend one of her wicked, devil worshipping, blasphemous false-gospel fests and think that God is pleased. (Before you ask, yes, this is the nicest way I can say it)

 

[Craig]

OK, it's 1000 to 1 against my going; Calvin'sCuz the lone "Yay".

I am now going to dare broach a touchy subject.

***Disclaimer: I am NOT attempting to skirt the issue or conjure some rationale. I agree concerning JM's heretical teachings etc. I was forced several years ago to investigate the teachings of the whole bunch of WordFaith nut-jobs. I read Charismatic Chaos, A Different Gospel, Power Religion, Blinded By Might etc and have had many one-on-ones with a former Pastor who leaned heavily on WordFaith stuff. So I've done a good bit of homework. So...

My wife and I took a walk together this evening and I brought up the weekend. The conversation went OK but also went as expected. But I thought of something. Recall the threads regarding Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ movie? We had some here on the PB who went to see it. My only reason for bringing that up is that the same reasons presented here regarding JM could be used for those who saw The Passion. It makes it neither right nor wrong, but heresy / blasphemy is what it is.

Now, I'm not tracking who saw The Passion and who is posting the "Nay" in this thread to find discrepancy or hypocrisy, but is the parallel warranted or am I missing something?

There may be a parallel...but I'm one of those guys that did not see The Passion.

There is a big difference, however, when one medium is entertainment and the other poses as edification. This event will certainly not be you washing your wife in the Word.

In reality will there be a great evil wreaked from attending JM? I don't know...maybe not. It sounds like your wife keeps up with these sorts of teachers, so now she simply has her husband following her to a JM event.

You could take notes of all the wrong things taught, then talk about that together as a group...but how effective is that usually? It will become a battle of proof texting, really.

If it was me, I'd make the choice really easy for my wife:
"I'll go, but it will only be to disrupt the teaching. I cannot keep my mouth shut while JM opens up her mouth."

Your wife will not want to be embarrassed...neither will your friends. They'll probably just feel sorry for you and how much of a pharasaical legalist you are

 

[Rogerant]

This is a good opportunity for you take take a role in your responsibilities to "lead" your household in the proper method of worship. It looks like it is time for you to spend some time studying the differences between JM's teaching and the Word with your wife. I would tell her that it goes against your conscience to attend such an event. You do not have to feel afraid of your wife's response as it is a matter of conscience.

 

[christiana]

Would going to hear Joyce Meyer show to others that you are strongly taking a stand for Truth and orthodox doctrine?

Once we decide to do something we can rationalize its acceptability, never seeking to confirm our decision by scriptural standards!

 

[Whitefield]

Who's Joyce Meyer?

A woman preacher...shall I go on?

Ok, I will

She's a tongue-speaking, devil-rebuking, name-it-and-claim-it, charismatic / pentecostalist. An extremely wealthy peddler of the prosperity gospel. . .

. . . And as Paul would say "reprobate concerning the faith" (2 Tim 3:8).

And while I'm at it, I do not see how any Christian can attend one of her wicked, devil worshipping, blasphemous false-gospel fests and think that God is pleased. (Before you ask, yes, this is the nicest way I can say it)

Is that vote aye or nay?

 

[Rogerant]

“And then they were taught what to do if certain men are gone out from among you saying “Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known” And “then shall thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently, and behold, if it be the truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you. That thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein.” Deut: 12 and 13

When the children of Israel heard of this altar, they gathered themselves together to go to war against those who built the altar and to “cut them off”. And according to Moses’ words they inquired, made search and asked diligently to ascertain whether they had turned away from the true worship of God and were building an altar to make sacrifice on to other gods. And the three tribes responded:

“The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,) That we have built us an altar to turn from following the LORD, or if to offer thereon burnt offering or meat offering, or if to offer peace offerings thereon, let the LORD himself require it; And if we have not rather done it for fear of this thing, saying, In time to come your children might speak unto our children, saying, What have ye to do with the LORD God of Israel? For the LORD hath made Jordan a border between us and you, ye children of Reuben and children of Gad; ye have no part in the LORD: so shall your children make our children cease from fearing the LORD. Therefore we said, Let us now prepare to build us an altar, not for burnt offering, nor for sacrifice: But that it may be a witness between us, and you, and our generations after us, that we might do the service of the LORD before him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices, and with our peace offerings; that your children may not say to our children in time to come, Ye have no part in the LORD. Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should so say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say again, Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it is a witness between us and you." (Josh 22:22)

So, when someone suggests that you go and worship a strange god, you should inquire, and make search, and ask diligently to see whether their altar of witness (testimony)reflects the true altar in heaven. Our altar of witness (testimony) are the confessions and creeds. The witness, confession or testimony (rock) that Jesus is the Christ the chief cornerstone of the altar. (Matt 16:13-18) And the apostles and the reformers were building upon this altar of witness with prescious stones of doctrines and confessional statements, not with wood hay or stubble.

Joyce Myers and others like her do not have an altar that we recognize. Therefore, we are not to have anything to do with them. They need to know that we believe that they have gone off to serve other gods.

 

[D. Paul]

Tell her you are going to take her out for a romantic dinner and good movie, instead.

Amen. Or get her consider how much good beer that you could buy instead of a JM Ticket.

No cost involved...not that that bears any weight.

-----Added 5/28/2009 at 11:22:50 EST-----

There is a big difference, however, when one medium is entertainment and the other poses as edification. This event will certainly not be you washing your wife in the Word.

In reality will there be a great evil wreaked from attending JM? I don't know...maybe not. It sounds like your wife keeps up with these sorts of teachers, so now she simply has her husband following her to a JM event.

You could take notes of all the wrong things taught, then talk about that together as a group...but how effective is that usually? It will become a battle of proof texting, really.

If it was me, I'd make the choice really easy for my wife:
"I'll go, but it will only be to disrupt the teaching. I cannot keep my mouth shut while JM opens up her mouth."

Your wife will not want to be embarrassed...neither will your friends. They'll probably just feel sorry for you and how much of a pharasaical legalist you are

"...when one medium is entertainment and the other poses as edification..."

I forget which Evangelical said that The Passion movie would be the greatest evangelistic tool of our time.

It sounds like your wife keeps up with these sorts of teachers, so now she simply has her husband following her to a JM event.

No, not at all. In fact she pays them no attention. In the past, I have made it a point to document what had been "preached" and then gone to Scripture to show her why they were (are) in error.

Regarding my early statement that I had no "means of escape", I was wrong. I am going to have a conversation with Mr. Friends-of-Ours. If the main point to all of this was to finally have some prolonged time to spend together (and it was), I will suggest that we all go out for breakfast, take in a matinee movie (NOT The Passion and then come to our house and play Wii or something. Due to our previous conversations, he would understand completely.

-----Added 5/28/2009 at 11:29:01 EST-----

Once we decide to do something we can rationalize its acceptability, never seeking to confirm our decision by scriptural standards!

Thank you, Christiana. That is the very thing I fear everyone believes I am doing. This is an opportunity to uphold the Truth.

 

[christiana]

'And in all that I have said to you, be circumspect and make no mention of the name of other gods, nor let it be heard from your mouth.' Ex 23:13

Their Sorrows shall be multiplied who hasten after another god;
Their drink offerings of blood I will not offer,
Nor take their names on my lips. Ps 16:4

You shall not make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause anyone to swear by them; you shall not serve them nor bow down to them, but you shall hold fast to the Lord your God, as you have done to this day. Josh 23:7,8

Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Eph 5:12

Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. 1 Cor 14:20

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Mt 10:16

For I will take from her mouth the names of the Baals,
And they shall be remembered by their name no more. Hos 2:17

Departure from the faith begins with our very first step away from His wholesome words!
For me, these verses say to steer clear of all that is not pure doctrine, lest your mind become contaminated with falsehood! All that goes into our mind comes out in our life!

 

[GTMOPC]

We couldn't/wouldn't go. No way, no how, not even if she offered us her mansion.

She's giving away her mansion? I'll take her private jet if the mansion is already gone. Now that's living the prosperity gospel, share it.

 

[Craig]

I am going to have a conversation with Mr. Friends-of-Ours. If the main point to all of this was to finally have some prolonged time to spend together (and it was), I will suggest that we all go out for breakfast, take in a matinee movie (NOT The Passion and then come to our house and play Wii or something. Due to our previous conversations, he would understand completely.

After all the hub-ub on the PB...you can't make it sound so simple

 

[D. Paul]

I am going to have a conversation with Mr. Friends-of-Ours. If the main point to all of this was to finally have some prolonged time to spend together (and it was), I will suggest that we all go out for breakfast, take in a matinee movie (NOT The Passion and then come to our house and play Wii or something. Due to our previous conversations, he would understand completely.

After all the hub-ub on the PB...you can't make it sound so simple

Has this not been the advice given: At any cost, to not go? After all the hub-ub I would think this would bring a sigh of relief.

 

[toddpedlar]

Regarding my early statement that I had no "means of escape", I was wrong. I am going to have a conversation with Mr. Friends-of-Ours. If the main point to all of this was to finally have some prolonged time to spend together (and it was), I will suggest that we all go out for breakfast, take in a matinee movie (NOT The Passion and then come to our house and play Wii or something. Due to our previous conversations, he would understand completely.

Wonderful to hear, Donald.

Does the church they attend have female preachers? I wonder if this would be a good time for you, since you're speaking to Mr. Friends-of-Yours, to take up that as one issue - man-to-man, asking whether he thinks its appropriate, given the Scriptural witness against women in authority and teaching in the church, to even consider going to her conference. It might prove a fruitful providence to discuss this AND the issue of what she actually spews forth into the microphone - but certainly the concept of male headship in the home and male-only authority in the church is something you could address in your one-on-one discussion.

 

[D. Paul]

No, Todd. We all attend the same General Baptist Conference Church.

 

[toddpedlar]

No, Todd. We all attend the same General Baptist Conference Church.

Oh... hm. But the BGC doesn't ordain women, right? I know that Open Theism has a huge inroad into the BGC, but it seems to me that Joyce Meyer's brand of name-it-claim-it would be totally at odds with BGC doctrinal positions.

I assume you've covered that ground before, but it would seem to me that this is an EASY place to start a new discussion.

 

[Michael Butterfield]

Since you asked, I wouldn't see Beth Moore either.

-----Added 5/28/2009 at 09:15:13 EST-----

Would people who would refuse to see Joyce Meyer also refuse to go to a university lecture on a topic they disagreed with or, for example, attend a relatives graduation where the key note address is from someone you disagreed with?

Isn't there a way to simply protect yourself from their influence while using the topic as an opening to discussion?

Apples and oranges. Sorry mate