modesty?

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Okay, I am new here and here are my thoughts on modesty. I surely hope that none of you will be offended in any way.

I believe that modesty is how you think and how you dress. Modesty is showing others that you put El (hebrew for G-d... I don't like saying G-d...) first in your life and that you rather would put him first in your life than yourself.

I believe that , as a woman of valour, I should wear long skirts with no slits, blouses that cover most of my neck and all of my arms.. except of course my hands. I do not wear pants no longer because they show the outline of my legs. Nor do I no longer wear tube tops, sleeveless, or any kind of shirt that exposes my arms. Therefore, too I no longer expose my legs. I usually wear socks at the time. I no longer too wear bathing suits of any kind.

Really no one these days are modesty and these days have become like Sedom and Gomorrah. If we are to show that we are set-apart (quodeshim) we need to start dressing appriopriatly! (spelling?)

Bathing suits are VERY inmodest.. one peices and all! Women, aren't we supposed to safe ourselves for our husbands?! If we are showing off our legs, arms, shoulders, and backs and such we are not saving ourselves or therefore keeping ourselves only for our husbands! We are not to be a stumbling block for our fellow brothers.

Guys, you can be just as inmodest and girls can.

Are we not supposed to be stumbling blocks for one another but to bring eachother yup?

Well, my doing what this world does we are creating stumbling blocks for one another and I don't think El wants us to do that does he?

There our my two cents.
 
I might as well throw in my two cents, too.

I think that the emphasis of modesty being in the attitude as PastorWay and others have said is primary. Modesty does mean an attitude of not wishing to draw attention to ones body, or ones person. That is why the women are not to "dress up" with all this stunning finery-- as if they are on display. We are not to dress so as to be noticed. Modesty also has a lot to do with propriety. This comes in at the beach because what is proper at the beach is improper elsewhere. What is proper at the grocery store is not proper at church. Frankly, what is proper at church is not proper at the playground. I personally hate to see little girls in dresses trying to go down slides.

I wear what I consider a modest swimsuit. It has shorts sewn onto it. You can order these from Blair, if any of you women are interested: www.blair.com. Blair also has more modest regular cut bathing suits, though I can't feel comfortable in those.

A modest woman may call attention to herself in some places, by virtue of being the only modest woman! But her whole demeanor will detract from the kind of attention an immodest woman receives. It will not be directed at her as though she is displaying herself, but exactly for the opposite reason. Also, there is enough variety in what is stylish in our culture to be modest and yet not appear strange. Al Martin has a great sermon in Phillippians on how Christians ought not to appear strange just to do so; otherwise the world will write them off and not listen to them when they have a legitimate reason to be strange.

I respect women with stricter standards than I have, primarily because they are modest in heart: but I do not feel immodest around them if my hemline happens to be shorter (though I don't wear short skirts because I think they are more suggestive than straight shorts-- for me, that draws my own attention to what I am wearing more than I want to focus on it). Immodesty is in more than my hemline.

[Edited on 3-31-2004 by a mere housewife]
 
preach it heidi...

I think someone said it already but I'll say it again - that outward immodesty is really only a symptom of a problem of a woman's (immodest) heart.

Even women who appear somewhat modest may have a flatterring tongue or INCESSANT giggling in order to draw attention to herself. Though perhaps she may not go as far as Proverbs seductress in her actions - her behavior demonstrates that she would like to were it not for those commands...

Many young Christian women seem to have rebellious hearts - while paying lip service to having Biblical standards, they will push the limit as far as they can without crossing the obvious line.

It is true - women who do not play the huntress, even in the church (in my experience) do stand out a bit and often go unsupported as their culture, perhaps even their family, tells them to be forward and aggessive to pursue a man to marry.
 
Somewhere way back in the thread it was asked what crowd does a tattoo identify you with.

Well I got some and I'm at this point identified with a bunch of puritan thinking folks :bigsmile: Point well taken, however the image is changing as we speak.

I've not found them to be a hindrance to myself or others, I simply explain that they were aquired at a young and stupid age and that is the end of it.

I'm not sure they have ever embarrassed me - would I rather they weren't there? Probably, but not going to go get my ears pierced to make myself feel better about myself :bouncy:

Concerning modesty it seems that the inner woman should outshine the outer woman. Example: In the 70's when the mini skirt craze spread through most churches we had a lot of young women in our church - most were being fashionable with the short skirts. I found myself looking away from women quite often - not a confortable thing to do but necessary when trying to talk to someone.

There was one young woman that I hadn't noticed at all. One day I realized she was wearing the same type skirts, but had never noticed it - her countanance drew your mind to her godliness. I tried to communicate that to the other young ladies, but I'm not sure the message ever resonated.

One of the keys I see in the thread is that men are desirious of being a part in the modesty of their ladies. In the 70's one of my main points was that the problem is not only the woman's but the husbands/fathers.

Having said that, there is one other that is responsible - the looker and we often forget to mention him. I'd guess there is no dress that will cover a woman adequately to keep some from improper thoughts.
 
Bob, I think you were referring to a thong. Frankly, I find them disgusting, no matter who's wearing them.

Phillip, I don't know why you always sound so soundly reasonable to me.

My thoughts (which usually border on insanity): Modesty comes from the heart. It doesn't mean you make yourself ugly, because your husband would then be ashamed of you, which is not good. It's the difference between Sarah and Jezebel.
 
While it is obvious that johnpauljudah is sincere in asking this question and that it is a question that needs to be asked, it is in some ways kind of like the question the Scribe asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" The Scribe knew what Jesus meant by 'neighbor.' He did not need it defined for him. So it is with modesty. We generally know what it means, so common sense should give us a lot of direction here.

Please, understand that I am not discounting any of the good direction given here, but we must be careful to not to draw lines like school dress codes: "Skirts shall be at least . . ." You get the idea.

There are at least two very basic concepts or values to teach children here. (Notice values, not rules.) First is the issue of godly modesty. Much good about this concept has already been said in this thread. The second concept is that of living for the glory of God, from which the concept of modesty grows. Unless we teach this value, all else will be lost in the battle to fit in with the rest of the world.
 
http://www.wholesomewear.com/

^^My sisters wear these swimsuits.^^

In my opinion, the first impression one receives of a woman's modesty as an inward quality is from what she is wearing on the outside; you may never talk to her and be able to discern her attitude, but if you saw her in a crowd, you could at least deduce that she is decent and considerate to the men around her.

Perhaps I'm going to stick out as an over-sensitive fellow, but I believe women wearing jeans fail to differentiate themselves from men by wearing the same type of attire and thus differences that shouldn't be violated are blurred and women at least look more like men, which would seem to be falling short of Deuteronomy 22:5 to me.

Differing degrees of interpretation have been given to me about this verse, but ultimately I see people just ignoring the smallest degree of it and allowing sisters in the church to wear the same type of clothing and even borrow clothing from the men in some cases. :-\

It would seem to me that every possible form of a woman's body is outlined when she wears jeans, to whatever degree the pair is tight on her, whereas a skirt, if done properly, will hide the contours of her legs, thighs, and crotch area from any of the weaker brethren who often look at whatever a woman offers to their gaze before thinking of what they're doing. I don't mind saying men are wrong in this habit, but I think women often handle this red-hot brand of latent sexuality too carelessly before men.

Men have been going nuts over women ever since Adam swooned over Eve for reasons I can appreciate, if not understand, so I would ask you sisters to please reserve as much of your beauty for your husbands as you reasonably can while in public. Taliban Muslim wear would seem demonic and Jewish standards legalistic, but I have some appreciation for what I see of the latter on this website: http://www.tznius.com/

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by polemic_turtle]

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by polemic_turtle]
 
I had a two-piece that I wore to go sun bathing (with sun screen), but I would never wear it out in public. Now I don't sun bathe and if I go swimming where there are other men/boys around, I wear a one piece, and often times shorts on top of that. As already stated, modesty comes from within, and that is, in my opinion, a harder battle than selecting and wearing clothes to cover up skin.
 
Originally posted by polemic_turtle

Perhaps I'm going to stick out as an over-sensitive fellow, but I believe women wearing jeans fail to differentiate themselves from men by wearing the same type of attire and thus differences that shouldn't be violated are blurred and women at least look more like men, which would seem to be falling short of Deuteronomy 22:5 to me.

Differing degrees of interpretation have been given to me about this verse, but ultimately I see people just ignoring the smallest degree of it and allowing sisters in the church to wear the same type of clothing and even borrow clothing from the men in some cases. :-

It would seem to me that every possible form of a woman's body is outlined when she wears jeans, to whatever degree the pair is tight on her, whereas a skirt, if done properly, will hide the contours of her legs, thighs, and crotch area from any of the weaker brethren who often look at whatever a woman offers to their gaze before thinking of what they're doing. I don't mind saying men are wrong in this habit, but I think women often handle this red-hot brand of latent sexuality too carelessly before men.
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I would point out that there are jeans... And then there are jeans... My wife wears modestly cut jeans on certain occasions. We are both 'lab rats' - i.e. often in chemistry labs, and these are most appropriate for the occasion. She would never be accused of trying to look like a man.

On the other hand we have a 'pandemic' at work - young women wearing skin tight jeans, often with very short tops. These are definitely immodest. We have had young women wear these to the Chapel on occasions. In such occasions, we elders tend to speak with their fathers and exhort them to better train their daughters. If an inappropriately dressed young woman does not have a father in the assembly, we ask one of our wives to take her aside and explain what is modest and what is not and why immodest clothing is inappropriate. Most of the young women take this graciously because it is done in a gentle, loving, concerned manner. We have had youth conferences where we have had to find suitable clothing for some of the young women. We have not had occasion to speak to the young men about their dess, but would if it were required.
 
Well, in former ages, I would have still said you were in need of conversion, but I am now a little wiser, I hope, and will leave it to your sanctified discretion to decide what to do.

As for the inward qualities being more of a struggle, I readily admit it to be so; I feel that we all easily look better than we feel inside, for with practice, inward warfare can be masked and concealed pretty easily, which is only polite, I guess, in most situations. However, I would still caution you that anything close to an outline of the female body will almost certainly be tempting to any man with a fallen nature and natural God-given appreciation for the.. *cough*.. "finer" parts of Creation? I can only imagine that God created Eve to interest Adam in every single way possible. :-| ;-)
 
I believe this subject can be split into two separate discussions...both equally important...inward modesty (ie modest attitude and actions) and outward modesty (appearance and actions).

Sorry, but no one will be seeing me in even a one piece...not unless it is a private pool or beach and only women. Sorry, but one pieces are VERY revealing on both mature and younger women.
 
Originally posted by trevorjohnson
...I would love to do away with my nuisance of a wedding band and just tattoo my ring onto my finger so I won't lose it...
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What a great idea! :up:
 
Whatever a Christian women would wear to the pool she ought to feel comfortable wearing it to and in the store. My wife brought this up recently. She was trying on an old bathing suit (when we were immature babes in the faith). I said (jokingly) Yes, thats great, let's go to the store now and show it off! We both had a nice laugh and summarily tossed that costume into the trash.

And shirts/tops, too. Someone said, ..."you can't draw hard lines." Yes, I can, and I should. Can I see ANY part of a woman's breast(s) from the shirt/blouse she's wearing? This is IMMODEST and IMPROPER for a godly woman. It happens to be my observation the more godly the woman the more godly her dress.

Why do some Christian women feel the need to display all of her legs upto about 3 inches from...you know.....? Why?! By this type of dress, I become privy to a part of a woman's body that only her husband should be. :mad:

This dress is for the world's women. Not God's women.

Shame on the men that leave there wives and daughters to the groping eyes and minds of sinners.
 
Originally posted by mangum
Whatever a Christian women would wear to the pool she ought to feel comfortable wearing it to and in the store. My wife brought this up recently. She was trying on an old bathing suit (when we were immature babes in the faith). I said (jokingly) Yes, thats great, let's go to the store now and show it off! We both had a nice laugh and summarily tossed that costume into the trash.

And shirts/tops, too. Someone said, ..."you can't draw hard lines." Yes, I can, and I should. Can I see ANY part of a woman's breast(s) from the shirt/blouse she's wearing? This is IMMODEST and IMPROPER for a godly woman. It happens to be my observation the more godly the woman the more godly her dress.

Why do some Christian women feel the need to display all of her legs upto about 3 inches from...you know.....? Why?! By this type of dress, I become privy to a part of a woman's body that only her husband should be. :mad:

This dress is for the world's women. Not God's women.

Shame on the men that leave there wives and daughters to the groping eyes and minds of sinners.
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:amen:
 
Modesty is something I hold to be very important but something I rarely if EVER see on a girl. Our culture is disgusting, deceptive, and twisted.
 
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Modesty is something I hold to be very important but something I rarely if EVER see on a girl. Our culture is disgusting, deceptive, and twisted.
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:ditto:

But the culture has an excuse, so to speak, they are what they are - God mocking blasphemers.

But what about the Christian culture at large? There are not too many subjects to me more infuriating than this.

These Christian parents are inciting young men to sin against there very own daughters (and wives)! How asinine! By letting their children "walk according to this world" watching trashy TV shows and movies, hanging out with rank unbelievers, etc, etc. :mad:

So I can't stand to hear these same parents lament, "Woe is me...why is Suzie playing the whore....why is she involved in sexual activity...God help us..."

:banghead:

He has helped you. It's called his Word. Disregard it at you and your family's peril.
 
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but are you saying that a woman is supposed to dress in such a way that I can't tell she has breasts? Or legs, or any body part other than a head? What if someone has Angelina lips? Should she cover those too?
 
Originally posted by py3ak
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but are you saying that a woman is supposed to dress in such a way that I can't tell she has breasts? Or legs, or any body part other than a head? What if someone has Angelina lips? Should she cover those too?
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I think he was meaning showing the skin of the cleavage and the parts that can stick out on larger women in sleeveless tops from the sides. Women cannot completely "hide" that part of being a woman...but they needn't expose it either or draw added attention to it (overtly tight tops, lettering across the chest of a shirt, etc).
 
Originally posted by mangum
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Modesty is something I hold to be very important but something I rarely if EVER see on a girl. Our culture is disgusting, deceptive, and twisted.
Click to expand...

:ditto:

But the culture has an excuse, so to speak, they are what they are - God mocking blasphemers.

But what about the Christian culture at large? There are not too many subjects to me more infuriating than this.

These Christian parents are inciting young men to sin against there very own daughters (and wives)! How asinine! By letting their children "walk according to this world" watching trashy TV shows and movies, hanging out with rank unbelievers, etc, etc. :mad:

So I can't stand to hear these same parents lament, "Woe is me...why is Suzie playing the whore....why is she involved in sexual activity...God help us..."

:banghead:

He has helped you. It's called his Word. Disregard it at you and your family's peril.
Click to expand...

:amen:
 
Originally posted by jrminter
Originally posted by polemic_turtle

Perhaps I'm going to stick out as an over-sensitive fellow, but I believe women wearing jeans fail to differentiate themselves from men by wearing the same type of attire and thus differences that shouldn't be violated are blurred and women at least look more like men, which would seem to be falling short of Deuteronomy 22:5 to me.

Differing degrees of interpretation have been given to me about this verse, but ultimately I see people just ignoring the smallest degree of it and allowing sisters in the church to wear the same type of clothing and even borrow clothing from the men in some cases. :-

It would seem to me that every possible form of a woman's body is outlined when she wears jeans, to whatever degree the pair is tight on her, whereas a skirt, if done properly, will hide the contours of her legs, thighs, and crotch area from any of the weaker brethren who often look at whatever a woman offers to their gaze before thinking of what they're doing. I don't mind saying men are wrong in this habit, but I think women often handle this red-hot brand of latent sexuality too carelessly before men.
Click to expand...

I would point out that there are jeans... And then there are jeans... My wife wears modestly cut jeans on certain occasions. We are both 'lab rats' - i.e. often in chemistry labs, and these are most appropriate for the occasion. She would never be accused of trying to look like a man.

On the other hand we have a 'pandemic' at work - young women wearing skin tight jeans, often with very short tops. These are definitely immodest. We have had young women wear these to the Chapel on occasions. In such occasions, we elders tend to speak with their fathers and exhort them to better train their daughters. If an inappropriately dressed young woman does not have a father in the assembly, we ask one of our wives to take her aside and explain what is modest and what is not and why immodest clothing is inappropriate. Most of the young women take this graciously because it is done in a gentle, loving, concerned manner. We have had youth conferences where we have had to find suitable clothing for some of the young women. We have not had occasion to speak to the young men about their dess, but would if it were required.
Click to expand...

I understand the concerns about how many a times pants can reveal much more of a woman's form than is suitable, especially in certain postures. However, i think those who try to play the deut 22:5 card to forbid pants completely are guilty of reading too much of culture back into the bible. Trying to impose such man made restrictions on others is, i think, ultimately not benefical as it taints by association all christians calling for modesty with the craziness of the no pants crowd.
 
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Well, then just call me crazy...
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Hi Colleen,

Prehaps i should have chosen different words. Let me say i have nothing against those who simply feel that dresses are more feminine or more appropriate, or simply look better. In fact, in many ways i agree. Or against those who avoid pants because they feel they are immodest. That said, i still feel those who say it is a absolutely a sin for a woman to wear pants are going way beyond scripture in a manner similar to those who categorically condemn all alcohol use. No doubt there are many good people in that group with noble intentions, but they are still trying to prove something that scripture will not support.
 
Gotcha...just wanted to make certain you weren't going overboard in your emotions towards those of us in the "no pants" crowd ;)
 
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Well, then just call me crazy...
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Mine was tongue-in-cheek. Somebody on another thread had castigated theonomists for x,y, and z and on this thread, with a straight face, assumed the validity of a case law in the Old Testament. From there he assumes the theonomic position in this thread and denies it in the other. I just thought that was odd.
 
Originally posted by Draught Horse
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Well, then just call me crazy...
Click to expand...

Mine was tongue-in-cheek. Somebody on another thread had castigated theonomists for x,y, and z and on this thread, with a straight face, assumed the validity of a case law in the Old Testament. From there he assumes the theonomic position in this thread and denies it in the other. I just thought that was odd.
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I don't see how it would be, since dressing is a matter of private behavior of each christian and is, at least in the context of this thread, not connected at all to the running of a nation.
 
Originally posted by satz
Originally posted by Draught Horse
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Well, then just call me crazy...
Click to expand...

Mine was tongue-in-cheek. Somebody on another thread had castigated theonomists for x,y, and z and on this thread, with a straight face, assumed the validity of a case law in the Old Testament. From there he assumes the theonomic position in this thread and denies it in the other. I just thought that was odd.
Click to expand...

I don't see how it would be, since dressing is a matter of private behavior of each christian and is, at least in the context of this thread, not connected at all to the running of a nation.
Click to expand...

Theonomic hermeneutics applies to the individual as well as the nation.
 
Are you referring.. to me?? :lol:

Is it theonomic to take things out of the OT that express God's feelings about specific issues and apply them to believers? If so, I must be one, because I'm a big fan of the 10 commandments and think they contribute a lot toward guidance in what one should do. No more of those "to kill or not to kill? maybe I'll just steal..." dilemmas. ;-)

I'm of the persuation that when a nation develops cultural fashions so far that it would be impossible for a man to dress in a way in which a woman couldn't exactly copy it we've moved beyond diffentiating men and women's clothes as distinct, unique, or even different one from the other.

It would seem there used to be a difference, but it was eradicated by Riveter Rosie; did she sin in so doing? If so, would time reduce this trespass? If so, how long does it take to remove things from "sinful" to "normal"? Does this make sense? Does it matter at 12:57PM? It would seem more logical than my "temprance" arguments I used to make! ;-)

[Edited on 4-7-2006 by polemic_turtle]
 
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