PCA African-American Ministries Coordinator Newsletter

[OPC'n]

To me, Rev. Plummer's prayer request seems to boil down to mission and incarnation. In the same way that God became man to minister to man. Not only did he become man, but he became man in a particular place and ministered to a particular people. He took on their culture and their customs. In the same way, the PCA is seeking black pastors and church planters to minister in black communities. Is this to say that white (or for that matter, Asian, or Native American, or Latino) pastors are unable to minister effectively in those communities? Of course not! But still, this seems (to me) to be a case of wanting to meet people where they are and incarnate the Gospel there, just as Jesus did for first-century Israel.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that.

Would you be willing to say that those who are EP are not willing to incarnate the gospel to the surrounding community?

CT

That's a good question for every race to answer for themselves.

 

[ChristianTrader]

Does music/worship styles that does not cater to ones "sensibilities" imply a lack of caring about other ethnic groups?

Are people willing to stay in their "health and wealth", as well as other absurd theological viewpoints, teaching churches, because the Reformed churches do not have music to dance to or not enough non-white folks? If the answer is no, then I do not see the point of the thread or the letter. If the answer is yes, then there are way deeper issues than finding a black pastor.

CT

 

[he beholds]

To me, Rev. Plummer's prayer request seems to boil down to mission and incarnation. In the same way that God became man to minister to man. Not only did he become man, but he became man in a particular place and ministered to a particular people. He took on their culture and their customs. In the same way, the PCA is seeking black pastors and church planters to minister in black communities. Is this to say that white (or for that matter, Asian, or Native American, or Latino) pastors are unable to minister effectively in those communities? Of course not! But still, this seems (to me) to be a case of wanting to meet people where they are and incarnate the Gospel there, just as Jesus did for first-century Israel.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that.

Would you be willing to say that those who are EP are not willing to incarnate the gospel to the surrounding community?

CT

EP could still adopt more diverse tunes, since the tunes used are not inspired.

I wouldn't say that EP is any different from our hymn singers in this respect. Both groups have dead white guy music.
I appreciate that groups like RUF put new (cool) tunes to the solid Reformed hymns. I appreciate that my culture and sensibilities are now being included in the worship service.

 

[Knoxienne]

To me, Rev. Plummer's prayer request seems to boil down to mission and incarnation. In the same way that God became man to minister to man. Not only did he become man, but he became man in a particular place and ministered to a particular people. He took on their culture and their customs. In the same way, the PCA is seeking black pastors and church planters to minister in black communities. Is this to say that white (or for that matter, Asian, or Native American, or Latino) pastors are unable to minister effectively in those communities? Of course not! But still, this seems (to me) to be a case of wanting to meet people where they are and incarnate the Gospel there, just as Jesus did for first-century Israel.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that.

Would you be willing to say that those who are EP are not willing to incarnate the gospel to the surrounding community?

CT

EP could still adopt more diverse tunes, since the tunes used are not inspired.

I wouldn't say that EP is any different from our hymn singers in this respect. Both groups have dead white guy music.
I appreciate that groups like RUF put new (cool) tunes to the solid Reformed hymns. I appreciate that my culture and sensibilities are now being included in the worship service.

A word of caution, Sister Jessi. Many of those men who you referred to as "dead white guys" are very much alive in heaven because of the promise of the resurrection. And so is their music. We still have a duty to preserve it.

 

[raekwon]

Would you be willing to say that those who are EP are not willing to incarnate the gospel to the surrounding community?

CT

EP could still adopt more diverse tunes, since the tunes used are not inspired.

I wouldn't say that EP is any different from our hymn singers in this respect. Both groups have dead white guy music.
I appreciate that groups like RUF put new (cool) tunes to the solid Reformed hymns. I appreciate that my culture and sensibilities are now being included in the worship service.

A word of caution, Sister Jessi. Many of those men who you referred to as "dead white guys" are very much alive in heaven because of the promise of the resurrection. And so is their music. We still have a duty to preserve it.

Everything here is true except for the bolded sentence. It's certainly a good thing to preserve older tunes, but I'd have a hard time believing we've failed in some sort of "duty" if they fall out of use. It happens. It's okay.

Anyway, Jessi's point is a good one -- EP doesn't have to be culturally bound. New tunes can be written. Old tunes can be adapted.

(I'm amazed that this thread somehow turned into yet another EP discussion, by the way.)

 

[Knoxienne]

I'm amazed that this thread somehow turned into yet another EP discussion, by the way.

Yeah, interesting how that works.

 

[raekwon]

Does music/worship styles that does not cater to ones "sensibilities" imply a lack of caring about other ethnic groups?

Are people willing to stay in their "health and wealth", as well as other absurd theological viewpoints, teaching churches, because the Reformed churches do not have music to dance to or not enough non-white folks? If the answer is no, then I do not see the point of the thread or the letter. If the answer is yes, then there are way deeper issues than finding a black pastor.

CT

I don't know if this is necessarily a matter of "catering" to our sensibilities. A particular people in a particular culture will produce a particular style of music. It doesn't have to be imposed on them.

 

[Hamalas]

*finds a comfy couch and settles in for the long haul *

 

[Knoxienne]

*finds a comfy couch and settles in for the long haul *

 

[BJClark]

SemperEruditio;

Are any of the hymns composed by African-Americans? What era are the hymns from and are they limited to that time period alone?

In many reformed churches they don't sing hymns at all..they sing only the Psalms..

 

[raekwon]

*finds a comfy couch and settles in for the long haul *

get up and get to church! ;-)

 

[BJClark]

LadyFlynt;

However, when the majority of the church seems to be one, do you really want to stick around with people that you sit next to on Sunday, but who otherwise have nothing to do with you/don't seem to understand where you are coming from?

Who says they don't want anything to do with them? or is that someone making an assumption?

What is there to understand, that is different? They came from the exact same sinful world I do..where people treat others with disrespect, because of their own sinful heart.

What kind of looks would a black man get if he said, "amen!" to something a pastor said.

Why should he get any kind of look at all? If he gets 'a look' then it's not him with the problem, it's the person 'giving a look' who might have need to check his own heart, as to why the other man might give a hearty agreement "AMEN" to what the Pastor is preaching.

I guess I've been in many "white" Churches where men do the same thing..that it does not phase me..even some within my current church do the same..

What SHOULD be and what IS are two different things, unfortunately. And that is the point.

I agree, but that is not because of the color of a man's skin, but more the sin in a man's heart is it not??? And shouldn't that be what is addressed?

 

[LadyFlynt]

To me, Rev. Plummer's prayer request seems to boil down to mission and incarnation. In the same way that God became man to minister to man. Not only did he become man, but he became man in a particular place and ministered to a particular people. He took on their culture and their customs. In the same way, the PCA is seeking black pastors and church planters to minister in black communities. Is this to say that white (or for that matter, Asian, or Native American, or Latino) pastors are unable to minister effectively in those communities? Of course not! But still, this seems (to me) to be a case of wanting to meet people where they are and incarnate the Gospel there, just as Jesus did for first-century Israel.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that.

Would you be willing to say that those who are EP are not willing to incarnate the gospel to the surrounding community?

CT

When they insist that only one particular culture's tunes are acceptable, yes.

-----Added 5/31/2009 at 10:49:19 EST-----

Bobbie, yes, it's because of man's sin and sometimes that sin is not recognised for what it is. The man is making presumptions, because he is faced with another cultural issue and he is only viewing it from HIS cultural expectations. So YES, it DOES have to do with Culture/Ethnicity.

 

[BJClark]

Edward;

In addition, for southern Blacks of my generation or older, there is a history of not being able to use water fountains, or restrooms, or restaurants, or doctor's waiting rooms; being physically barred from white churches.

Again, that is a heart issue..is it not??

Aren't you imposing your thoughts or feelings on to someone else, assuming what they might be thinking?

That would be like me saying..

And there is always the question as to whether the Blacks on the pew even want to be sitting next to them.

It assumes much but in practicality it means nothing..because you are placing your own assumptions on the other person..either way, it's a heart issue..and not necessarily the person sitting in the pew beside you..because in reality they may not have a problem sitting next to you, some might, I agree, but we can not make assumptions, lest it's our own 'assumptions' and 'feelings' that are controlling us..and that should not be..

-----Added 5/31/2009 at 11:04:16 EST-----

LadyFlynt;

Bobbie, yes, it's because of man's sin and sometimes that sin is not recognised for what it is. The man is making presumptions, because he is faced with another cultural issue and he is only viewing it from HIS cultural expectations. So YES, it DOES have to do with Culture/Ethnicity.

So we should go to God's house with OUR Cultural expectations??

And why from a Christian isn't that sin recognized for what it is??? SIN???

 

[Edward]

[Aren't you imposing your thoughts or feelings on to someone else, assuming what they might be thinking?

I assumed that the Blacks with whom I've gotten close enough to have honest discussions about race have been honest with me. Any assumption entails some risk. And there are exceptions to every rule - as I noted above, age will have an impact. And certainly the young black family that I sat next to this morning and who came out and got in a nice new Mercedes may look at things from a slightly different angle than a poor person from the 'hood.

But to say that Christians of both races don't harbor some residual views indicates that someone may need to develop a better understanding of sanctification as a presently incomplete process.

That would be like me saying..

And there is always the question as to whether the Blac

ks on the pew even want to be sitting next to them.

That's a possibility that a white person ought to consider when worshipping in a Black church. There are some folks who are going to wonder what your agenda is.

It assumes much but in practicality it means nothing..because you are placing your own assumptions on the other person..either way, it's a heart issue..and not necessarily the person sitting in the pew beside you..because in reality they may not have a problem sitting next to you, some might, I agree, but we can not make assumptions, lest it's our own 'assumptions' and 'feelings' that are controlling us..and that should not be..

Saying that the attitudes are a result of 'sin' is accurate, but does nothing toward solving the problem.

As the original post says, prayer is the first step, but it isn't the only thing that can be done.

 

[SemperEruditio]

Typical...

Why not focus on the steak instead of the sizzle?

Wy Plummer stated:

Presently I am aware of three cities that want to plant PCA churches with African American leadership. Some of our white church planters are looking for an African American partner and will not begin the work until they find such a person. There are three multi-ethnic churches with vacant pulpits looking for African American pastors. The call for African American leadership far exceeds the supply. Will you join with me in praying that God will raise up more African American leaders? Will you pray that there will be increasing numbers of African Americans interested in Seminary? Will you pray that our present PCA churches will take a strong interest in other ethnic groups so that people will no longer feel alone and isolated? Will you pray that God will tear down the wall of separation so that there will no longer be a need to describe a church as black or white?

 

[LadyFlynt]

Bobbie, you aren't getting it.

They don't go with their cultural expectations, but rather feel that THEY & their CULTURE is being completely left out (and it is in MOST cases). It is a sin issue. It's not going away. The point is, we're trying to OVERCOME it...not tell people to just suck it up.

-----Added 5/31/2009 at 02:08:21 EST-----

Typical...

Why not focus on the steak instead of the sizzle?

Wy Plummer stated:

Presently I am aware of three cities that want to plant PCA churches with African American leadership. Some of our white church planters are looking for an African American partner and will not begin the work until they find such a person. There are three multi-ethnic churches with vacant pulpits looking for African American pastors. The call for African American leadership far exceeds the supply. Will you join with me in praying that God will raise up more African American leaders? Will you pray that there will be increasing numbers of African Americans interested in Seminary? Will you pray that our present PCA churches will take a strong interest in other ethnic groups so that people will no longer feel alone and isolated? Will you pray that God will tear down the wall of separation so that there will no longer be a need to describe a church as black or white?

Yes! And we should be ENCOURAGING men from ALL ethnicities to come into these roles. This is why this NEEDS to be talked about. This is why it needs to be put into prayer.



I can see why many say, "you're white; you wouldn't understand"...conversations like this prove that there are people that spend more time being defensive than actually trying to understand.

 

[he beholds]

A word of caution, Sister Jessi. Many of those men who you referred to as "dead white guys" are very much alive in heaven because of the promise of the resurrection. And so is their music. We still have a duty to preserve it.

Well, I typically call all people who have left earth dead, even Christians. (Except for Christ who, though he did die, rose again and left earth alive.) I thought that was the normal term. I really have not met even Christians who stop referring to their dead as dead. Toni, I can see your point, but I had never thought that it was wrong to call these people dead before! I will think about this. So if your aunt who was a Christian died, do you only say, "she went to glory?" I admit, that is a great way of saying it, but I do usually say "she died."


I am also happy to preserve their words, because I do love them. My point in calling them dead and white was to call attention to their time period and their own culture's influence upon the music they've written. I LOVE these old hymns. Singing them week after week is nearly my preference (again, for some hymns, I prefer a bit of an updated tune, but even still, I have no discomfort in singing them).

I am simply saying that it is completely fathomable to me that people who like other types and styles of music would also like to praise God in that style.

Our worship is not sanctified because of the melodies, but the truth and adherence to Scripture in the words--I think we tend to forget this.

This morning in Sunday School, the elder who was teaching stated in passing something about the form being for the benefit of the needs of the congregation, and not because to do otherwise would be sinning. I think he was talking about the way we take communion as opposed to other ways. Since we have many pews, it takes so many men to pass it out. But if we had less, we could do it another way. In this case, the two ways were equally acceptable, but the one way worked best for our particular congregation. So while most of the details of communion must adhere to Scripture's decrees, but some parts can be left to the needs of the saints in question. In my opinion, the form of music could likewise be chosen specifically for the needs of the congregation, though the standards set for all must still be met.

 

[Ravens]

I think that some people in this thread who are trying to culturally educate us are actually using more than a few over-worked stereotypes themselves. One almost gets the impression that white and black musical tastes, and how these play out in churches, are like an everlasting episode of Save the Last Dance, with black church members breaking out into spontaneous, exaggerated movements, and little white stick people awkwardly clapping and trying to keep up with the cool cocoa vibe.

Perhaps there are actual racial and genetic differences when it comes to music, but I think that a good part of it, if not most, is cultural. A couple thousand years ago Europeans were throwing sacrificial victims into bogs, or getting trashed on alcohol, or eating fly agaric, or frothing at the mouth in berserkergang, and plunging themselves nude into the frontlines of battle. Sounds pretty "active" to me. You can find honky tonks all over West Virginia with dancing, yelling, and fighting on most given nights. You can Youtube the snake-handling church in Jolo, W.V., and see white people in church twirling around holding rattlesnakes, dancing, prancing, and looking like they are at a Grateful Dead show. So is being loud and "expressive" really just some intrinsic racial "bent"?

And if not, then the question isn't necessarily, "Is the 'black race' or 'blackness' or 'whatever' being underrepresented in certain churches?" It might very well be, "What type of culture or music is appropriate to church?" I drink beer (and love beer), listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd and Scandinavian metal, and love to yell till I'm hoarse at football games. When I go to Riverview P.C.A. and have structured, slightly restrained hymns, is my culture being "underrepresented"? Or are certain types of music more suitable to church?

And actually, I don't have a problem with most "black music" that I've heard in church, I'm just making a point. I'm fine with churches being "as black as they wanna be", and I don't think clapping or swaying or whatever you want to do is necessarily less fit for church. But I think the debate is being framed disingenuously when you suggest that the current hymns are strictly racial, or rooted in some "white groove", when you could turn on an LSU football game [and watch the fans], or go to a Phish show and watch all the twirling, noodling white kids, or go to a Hank III concert, etc., and see all kinds of different "white vibes."

And honestly, I think it's a bit presumptuous for onesie-twosies of any color to walk into a church of a hundred or two hundred people and just ask that the music be changed to fit their tastes. I also get tired of the implicit statements that all of us palefaces just need to "get out more" and see the world. I've been the only (read: only, without even the pleasure of a "twosie" to my "onesie") white person in two separate black Pentecostal churches when I was first saved and open to anything (including things I shouldn't be [speaking theologically, not racially]). I certainly didn't expect them all to give into some corny stereotype and all sit up straight, talk about mowing their lawn and Ronald Reagan, and change their way of music just because I showed up at their church.

I've had a black "prophetess" rub oil on my head singing "Hallelujah" over and over in some straight-out-of-the-plantation soulful stereotypical tone. I've had her ghetto'd out daughter walk in and refer to me as "White Boy Troy" and ask why I was there. Did I cry? Did I feel "underrepresented?" No, I gave precisely two you-know-whats about it. And this was back in 2000, when I didn't have near the jadedness and irritation and aggression relative to these issues as I do now.

And I don't share that to validate anything. I realize that will be played off as the typical, "Some of my best friends are black" statement. It's not. I don't talk to any of them anymore; and I'm thankful for that (due to the extreme Pentecostalism)! So that's how far away I am from having a Hallmark moment. But I do get tired of certain agitators on these boards (and their enablers) suggesting that we just need to get out more, or that "white people just don't understand". As if we some of us had never been in situations where we were the minority.

 

[raekwon]

How the heck did this thread become about music?!

 

[he beholds]

How the heck did this thread become about music?!

I know--and I'm guilty of talking only about music. I almost ended my last post by saying that music isn't even the issue, and point out that despite that, it is something that we all quickly recognize as important enough for us to focus on on a thread about multi-cultural Christians!

 

[Edward]

How the heck did this thread become about music?!

Perhaps that is the 'safest' or 'most comfortable' place to hold the discussion. Anything else would require us to dig below the surface.

 

[Ravens]

If people wanted to talk about steak, then they shouldn't have participated in and promoted two pages of sizzle. It's been two pages of music already, so that's what I talked about. And the musical discussion, and how it plays out along racial lines, is replicated here every couple of years.

We can dig beneath the surface just fine.

It's just when we do that, the threads tend to get closed. Probably rightfully so. But certainly don't think that there's any hesitation on my part.

 

[rbcbob]

I am an elder in a church with about 125 members and about 75 visitors. Not that it matters to the Lord, but a majority of the membership is white. We also have hispanic members, black members (one of whom is an elder), and in the past have had members and longstanding visitors from Argentina, Taiwan, Dominican Republic, England, Russia, and other places in God's earth.

I have worshiped in an all black congregation where my wife and I were the only whites in attendance and left blessed and thankful.

I shepherd saints who are single, divorced, recovering drug addicts, former homosexuals, convicted murderers, severely handicapped, ... you name it. None of these precious sheep would leave our church for one in which their particular sovereignly ordained particulars were in the majority even if was located on their street.

We have members who earn well over six-figures annually as well as several families living well below the poverty level.

There are PhD's, doctors, and engineers among us. There are the barely literate as well.

All of this is to say that what brought us together and what keeps us together is the bond we have in Christ.

As I understand it, this is the makeup of the redeemed throughout the earth.

Bob

 

[ChristianTrader]

How the heck did this thread become about music?!

Did you read the letter in the OP? A great deal of time was spent on music/worship styles. If the main thing is something else, then the letter should have reflected that.

CT

-----Added 5/31/2009 at 05:17:44 EST-----

Typical...

Why not focus on the steak instead of the sizzle?

Wy Plummer stated:

Presently I am aware of three cities that want to plant PCA churches with African American leadership. Some of our white church planters are looking for an African American partner and will not begin the work until they find such a person. There are three multi-ethnic churches with vacant pulpits looking for African American pastors. The call for African American leadership far exceeds the supply. Will you join with me in praying that God will raise up more African American leaders? Will you pray that there will be increasing numbers of African Americans interested in Seminary? Will you pray that our present PCA churches will take a strong interest in other ethnic groups so that people will no longer feel alone and isolated? Will you pray that God will tear down the wall of separation so that there will no longer be a need to describe a church as black or white?

One question is if one does not lack a supply of leaders (meaning conservative seminary trained, Godly and faithful men) then why does one have a problem of lack of African American leaders have any relevance?

Is somebody racist? If the answer is no, then one needs to claim that there is something conservative Godly black leadership can provide that just cannot be provided by conservative Godly white leadership. If in fact this is the case, then why complain about how white led churches are operating. There are certain things that they just cannot get done.

Is it somehow related to the need to have a black President?

CT

 

[Edward]

Is somebody racist?

Probably, some, and others are just ignorant. One is sin and one isn't, but both contribute to the problem.

If the answer is no, then one needs to claim that there is something conservative Godly black leadership can provide that just cannot be provided by conservative Godly white leadership.

Well, the answer in part is yes. But apart from that, I'll assert the claim that there IS something that Godly Black leadership can do that Godly white leadership can't.

Indeed, the same realization has fueled change on the mission field. Have you not noticed the change to try to raise up indigenous leadership in the mission field, rather than relying solely on white western missionaries to lead?

 

[ChristianTrader]

Is somebody racist?

Probably, some, and others are just ignorant. One is sin and one isn't, but both contribute to the problem.

Then we need to separate out which is which, fix what needs to be fixed, call a spade what needs to be called a spade etc. and not hide behind music/worship styles.

If the answer is no, then one needs to claim that there is something conservative Godly black leadership can provide that just cannot be provided by conservative Godly white leadership.

Well, the answer in part is yes. But apart from that, I'll assert the claim that there IS something that Godly Black leadership can do that Godly white leadership can't.

Like what? I would say that there is nothing about skin color that makes one better able to minister to a certain flock. Now lack of understanding of the issues that face a certain flock or lack of knowing how to lead them to a gospel solution can be big issues. For example, some areas may struggle with male responsibility, some with homosexuality, some with the keeping up with the Joneses. Different flocks have different gods that they struggle with containing. But those are not racial problems, but instead understanding and knowledge problems.

Indeed, the same realization has fueled change on the mission field. Have you not noticed the change to try to raise up indigenous leadership in the mission field, rather than relying solely on white western missionaries to lead?

Pastors or missionaries should be naturally raising up leadership in their flock. If one is not, then I would start to question whether the full counsel of God is being preached or taught.

To think that one needs to rely solely on white western missionaries to lead seems to imply that the indigenous people are somehow inherently incapable of leading. That view is problematic on a great deal of levels.

CT

 

[Edward]

Is somebody racist?

Probably, some, and others are just ignorant. One is sin and one isn't, but both contribute to the problem.

Then we need to separate out which is which, fix what needs to be fixed, call a spade what needs to be called a spade etc. and not hide behind music/worship styles.

I don't disagree with that.

Well, the answer in part is yes. But apart from that, I'll assert the claim that there IS something that Godly Black leadership can do that Godly white leadership can't.

Like what? I would say that there is nothing about skin color that makes one better able to minister to a certain flock. Now lack of understanding of the issues that face a certain flock or lack of knowing how to lead them to a gospel solution can be big issues. For example, some areas may struggle with male responsibility, some with homosexuality, some with the keeping up with the Joneses. Different flocks have different gods that they struggle with containing. But those are not racial problems, but instead understanding and knowledge problems.

If you think color of skin doesn't still matter (both ways) these days, then you have had the benefit of living in a nice, protective, bubble.

Indeed, the same realization has fueled change on the mission field. Have you not noticed the change to try to raise up indigenous leadership in the mission field, rather than relying solely on white western missionaries to lead?

To think that one needs to rely solely on white western missionaries to lead seems to imply that the indigenous people are somehow inherently incapable of leading. That view is problematic on a great deal of levels.

You can see it in international mission fields, but you can't see it cross culturally in the US?

 

[Knoxienne]

But I do get tired of certain agitators on these boards (and their enablers) suggesting that we just need to get out more, or that "white people just don't understand". As if we some of us had never been in situations where we were the minority.

Thank you for using the word "agitator", Brother Joshua. Because agitation is exactly what it is. And it's not new. The more things change the more they stay the same.

I for one refuse to succumb to the politics of guilt and pity (make Whitey feel guilty so you can control him). I'm not swallowing the Kool-Aid.

 

[ChristianTrader]

Probably, some, and others are just ignorant. One is sin and one isn't, but both contribute to the problem.

Then we need to separate out which is which, fix what needs to be fixed, call a spade what needs to be called a spade etc. and not hide behind music/worship styles.

I don't disagree with that.

Okay so we have some sort of common ground.

If you think color of skin doesn't still matter (both ways) these days, then you have had the benefit of living in a nice, protective, bubble.

Actually you did not even attempt to address my objection. My objection is that some things blamed on race are actually just knowledge and understanding. It is not as if there is something inherent to the race.

Not to be mean but it seems like the same sort of reasoning used by Obama to put forth various racial or gender people to the Supreme Court. There is nothing inherent to women/men/black/white/latino etc. that make them able to rule on various cases better. Either one knows the facts of the case and how the law applies to this or one does not.

To think that one needs to rely solely on white western missionaries to lead seems to imply that the indigenous people are somehow inherently incapable of leading. That view is problematic on a great deal of levels.

You can see it in international mission fields, but you can't see it cross culturally in the US?

Um, you do not see the difference in situations? The problem is not raising up people from our congregations to receive calls to the ministry or related functions. From what I understand our seminaries seem to be quite full and producing a good number of ministerial candidates. The issue as far as black ministers is the Ones and twosies problem. Unless you think it is the responsibility of every black male in the PCA to go to seminary and become pastors, there are going to be few actual and potential black ministers in the PCA.

The only reason this would be a problem is if the people being produced are being trained to minister only to the standard middle class white congregation. But if that is the case, then sending more black males to seminary is just going to add to the number of people with the ability to minister to the standard middle class white congregation.

CT