Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
What Do You Think?
R.L. Dabney
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Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
We may have a cultural misunderstanding Rev. Winzer. In the U.S. for people my age "awesome" means as if the thing being described is "the best". Especially among those of us who grew up with Bill and Ted, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, etc...
Ps. 111:9.
AV: "holy and reverend is his name."
NKJV: "Holy and awesome is His name."
NASB: "Holy and awesome is His name."
ESV: "Holy and awesome is his name!"
NIV: "holy and awesome is his name."
Imagine if a person went around saying "isn't that holy," of any and everything that they happen to like. The word would be emptied of all meaning. Likewise, the word "awesome" is emptied of meaning when it is used to describe anything that a person enjoys or likes.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Nevermind.
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
Occassionally, I'll turn to Dabney's Systematic Theology before reading either Hodge or Berkof. I have always found him to be very helpful.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Point goes to Elder Brown 
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
Only a good 'backwoods Presbyterian' would limit the choices to awesome or great.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcellent!
-----Added 12/6/2008 at 02:44:28 EST-----
Rev. Winzer,
Has anything terrible ever happened to you?
Adam
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
If this be the case then we should remove all adjectives of grandeur from our vocabulary.
Classical Presbyterian
Puritan Board Junior
One of the most honored places on my shelf is reserved for Dabney's Discussions and Girardeau. But they ARE expensive. A dear departed brother's widow gave my his copies.
For those interested, Dabney's legacy lived on in Austin for many decades after his death. At the Austin Presbyterian Seminary, his student, Dr. Griggs (who taught into the 1960's) would stand for every prayer in the chapel, long after the students and rest of the faculty ceased to do so. This loyal student of Dabney would instruct: "The only posture for prayer in the Bible is on your face, kneeling and standing." So, stand he did!
Dabney lives on in plenty of other places too!
For those interested, Dabney's legacy lived on in Austin for many decades after his death. At the Austin Presbyterian Seminary, his student, Dr. Griggs (who taught into the 1960's) would stand for every prayer in the chapel, long after the students and rest of the faculty ceased to do so. This loyal student of Dabney would instruct: "The only posture for prayer in the Bible is on your face, kneeling and standing." So, stand he did!
Dabney lives on in plenty of other places too!
TimV
Puritanboard Botanist
It's always nice to read your posts, Rev. Winzer, whether agreeing or not. It's good and healthy to be kept on one's toes, and all of us have benefited hugely from the time you take to set your writings in order.
I've recently finished an article you wrote (that I bought from Chris "Naphtali" C. ) and the time you put into it will allow me to put a large, prickly cactus into the britches of a guy who's pushing the FV here in the Central Coast of CA.
In this case, Adam has pointed out an inconsistency in your objection to using words because of their archaic meaning, i.e. their meaning in a foreign language. I'll also point out that both the NKJV and ESV use the word awesome twice in regard to an army with banners, so in this case you are being a bit restrictive, especially when you base your argument on something factually incorrect.
To me, Dabney was a awesome cranky bigot and a parochial military genius who should have written one third less than he did, and I'm grateful for the other two thirds.
Now, where can I vote for that?
In the colloquial sense of "incompetent," yes. In the biblical sense of "fit to excite terror," ideally, not outside the knowledge of the holy; non-ideally, yes, there have been times when I have not consistently carried through on my doctrinal convictions, but these are not experiences I would be inclined to justify in the slightest.
-----Added 12/7/2008 at 07:14:00 EST-----
And in both cases the propriety of the speech is owing to the figurative nature of the writing which permits divine qualities to be attributed to the human subject.
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
So then, a term that has a particular reference in Scripture may be used in other contexts with just as good a point.
For instance, the Hebrew word for "holy" (speaking of holiness) is Kodesh. However, when the Hebrew authors wanted to describe those given over to sodomy, they use the same word, in many cases for those "given over" to their unnatural crimes.
Perhaps it would be inappropriate, therefore, to condemn in Benjamin what is common to languages: the same word in differing contexts can have differing meanings, even as you cited above regarding "terrible". "Awesome", to an American from the ages of 5 - 35, does not impugn the majesty of Almighty God, per se, when used of persons besides God.
Cheers,
Adam
I don't recall condemning Benjamin. I only stated that I cannot understand the use of this word to describe creaturely things. Obviously you are over-reacting.
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Forgive me, but stating that Benjamin's use of the term "awesome" to describe something he likes as emptying a word of meaning used in Scripture to describe God Alighty does seem like something very, very bad. What exactly would you call that?
It is not obvious to me that I am overreacting.
Cheers,
I amended the poll. Removed awesome as descriptive of a man and put in a few other choices
I'll be glad to see a discussion on the merits of Dabney sometime.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Why? Rev. Winzer has not come close to proving his point. We might as well disallow the use of "great" since God is described as "great". Do not forget about "Most" and "Very" et al.
Besides this was meant to be a rigged poll as the OP and subsequent posts maintain.
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