Walked Out of Church Today

[Mushroom]

The slow encroachment continues, and today reached a critical mass. We arrived to find microphones set up, and what now looks like a 'praise band' on the stage, with a young fellow belting out a loud and bluesy version of "I'll Fly Away". There were new amps set up and electrified instruments twanging.

All this is new, but has been steadily coming. More praise songs. The musicians moved from down on one side of the stage to center-stage and multiplied in number. Seems that after the Session fired the popular youth Pastor they have decided to appease the teens by surrendering the 'music ministry' to them.

So, awaiting with trepidation what this new setup portended, we sat through SS, then took our seats in the pew. The only mention of anything different in the bulletin was the curious interjection of the words "Special Music" between congregational prayer and the offering. As we sat preparing our hearts, prior to the call to worship, this same fellow begins an overwrought rendition of "I Saw The Light" with electric accompaniment. One retired Pastor came by and asked if I wanted to dance, to which I replied in the negative. I looked around the congregation and saw some folks clapping to the tune, some kids dancing in the aisle, some folks looking shocked, one beloved elderly sister holding her hands over her ears and her husband looking apoplectic with tears in his eyes.

The chaos and cacaphony was at that point more than I could bear, so I gathered up my family of 6 and departed, as did the elderly couple.

My daughter had been invited to play her viola with the orchestra last week, when she played some very nice hymns and one metric psalm, and was invited again this week which I forbade after hearing the rehearsal. Seemed kinda spider-webby to me.

Was I wrong? What would you folks recommend I do now?

My problem is not so much with the music, although I am not impressed with the lyrics of either of those songs, but with the flaunting of the Confession and the RPW. One Elder stepped down some months ago over the direction the music was taking, and had approached me last week about my position on EP, to which I responded that I was sympathetic to the idea, although not fully convinced, but that I was already driving 40 miles to attend the nearest nearly confessionally faithful Church I could find.

Why is this stuff happening in the PCA? And what's with always introducing these things prior to the call to worship, then migrating them into the service of worship, which occured with the praise songs some time back?

What say my PB brethren? Pastors?

 

[PresbyDane]

Sorry to hear this,

 

[Knoxienne]

The slow encroachment continues, and today reached a critical mass. We arrived to find microphones set up, and what now looks like a 'praise band' on the stage, with a young fellow belting out a loud and bluesy version of "I'll Fly Away". There were new amps set up and electrified instruments twanging.

All this is new, but has been steadily coming. More praise songs. The musicians moved from down on one side of the stage to center-stage and multiplied in number. Seems that after the Session fired the popular youth Pastor they have decided to appease the teens by surrendering the 'music ministry' to them.

So, awaiting with trepidation what this new setup portended, we sat through SS, then took our seats in the pew. The only mention of anything different in the bulletin was the curious interjection of the words "Special Music" between congregational prayer and the offering. As we sat preparing our hearts, prior to the call to worship, this same fellow begins an overwrought rendition of "I Saw The Light" with electric accompaniment. One retired Pastor came by and asked if I wanted to dance, to which I replied in the negative. I looked around the congregation and saw some folks clapping to the tune, some kids dancing in the aisle, some folks looking shocked, one beloved elderly sister holding her hands over her ears and her husband looking apoplectic with tears in his eyes.

The chaos and cacaphony was at that point more than I could bear, so I gathered up my family of 6 and departed, as did the elderly couple.

My daughter had been invited to play her viola with the orchestra last week, when she played some very nice hymns and one metric psalm, and was invited again this week which I forbade after hearing the rehearsal. Seemed kinda spider-webby to me.

Was I wrong? What would you folks recommend I do now?

My problem is not so much with the music, although I am not impressed with the lyrics of either of those songs, but with the flaunting of the Confession and the RPW. One Elder stepped down some months ago over the direction the music was taking, and had approached me last week about my position on EP, to which I responded that I was sympathetic to the idea, although not fully convinced, but that I was already driving 40 miles to attend the nearest nearly confessionally faithful Church I could find.

Why is this stuff happening in the PCA? And what's with always introducing these things prior to the call to worship, then migrating them into the service of worship, which occured with the praise songs some time back?

What say my PB brethren? Pastors?

I would have walked out too. Praying for you and yours, Brad.

I don't want to get in trouble here for expressing my opinion of a lot that's happening in the PCA and other reformed denominations. Just know that you're not alone, Brother.

 

[OPC'n]

Are there any OPC churches near you?

 

[Rich Koster]

About 7 years ago, a fellow elder and myself made a comment on the music getting "too showy" after a family left because of that. A few years later, it got to the point you mentioned....a performance. I was in the minority and was marginalized for that and other doctrinal points and the way the children's ministry was getting out of control too. It seems that the mindset is drifting from "what is pleasing to God", to "what is pleasing to the crowd".

 

[Scott1]

Biblically, its best to take these concerns to your Session.

Carefully and prayerfully sort out "preferences" from the "regulative principle" of worship.

Be specific also so Session can understand the specific instances that appear to violate the regulative principle, not merely general complaint about style or music preference. Remember to pray for your deacons and elders regularly as they bear the authority and responsibility for setting "tone" and "practice."

 

[Hamalas]

 

[Mushroom]

Biblically, its best to take these concerns to your Session.

Appreciate your counsel, brother. They are aware of my position on these matters, and my impression is that they consider it to be one of picayunery.

Carefully and prayerfully sort out "preferences" from the "regulative principle" of worship.

Actually, both those songs have some level of endearment to me, being probably the first two 'Christian' songs I learned. My trepidation is with the continual introduction of more and more instrumentation, more and more amplification, the increasing centrality of the 'music ministry' to the service of worship, and now for the first time ever a vocal soloist. I am trying to check myself to be sure this is not a matter of taste, and have so far remained relatively acquiescent to the changes, but this appears to be a determined deconstruction of the RPW. I could be wrong... certainly would not be the first time.

Be specific also so Session can understand the specific instances that appear to violate the regulative principle, not merely general complaint about style or music preference.

Would you consider what I have described to violate the RPW? And why or why not? Any counsel is greatly appreciated.

Remember to pray for your deacons and elders regularly as they bear the authority and responsibility for setting "tone" and "practice."

We have been, but as with all such things, I find there is room for improvement.

Shall I simply submit to their decisions in this matter, or move to the nearest OPC, about 5 miles further in another direction?

 

[Knoxienne]

I think you should go to the OPC 5 miles further away. My

 

[Pergamum]

Why would a viola be okay but not a guitar?

 

[Edward]

What say my PB brethren?

At this point you have two options.

1) Walk.

2) Confronting the session in a Biblical manner. Ask to speak with them at their next meeting, and ask them whether they are willing to discard current members in their quest to conform to the culture. Don't accept anything but a 'yes' or 'no' answer - don't let them wiggle.

After exercising the second option, you'll probably have to do 1) anyway, although you could try to petition to force a congregational meeting on the issue. (See BCO 25-2)
http://www.pcaac.org/BCO 2008/BCO 2008 Reprint for Web 7-3-08.pdf

Petition drives of this sort should not be lightly entered into, because it has a high likelihood of hardening positions, but it can, on occasion, cause a session to seriously consider what it has done to harm the body.

 

[Ivan]

Why would a viola be okay but not a guitar?

Amplification?

Tone and tenor?

Mood?

I'd prefer a viola.

 

[Mushroom]

Why would a viola be okay but not a guitar?

Did someone say a guitar would not be okay? In fact, there are 3 guitars, two violins, a banjo, a mandolin, a trumpet, piano, occasionally a tin whistle, and recently a drumset. Oh, and last week my daughter's viola.

 

[Theognome]

The slow encroachment continues, and today reached a critical mass. We arrived to find microphones set up, and what now looks like a 'praise band' on the stage, with a young fellow belting out a loud and bluesy version of "I'll Fly Away". There were new amps set up and electrified instruments twanging.

All this is new, but has been steadily coming. More praise songs. The musicians moved from down on one side of the stage to center-stage and multiplied in number. Seems that after the Session fired the popular youth Pastor they have decided to appease the teens by surrendering the 'music ministry' to them.

So, awaiting with trepidation what this new setup portended, we sat through SS, then took our seats in the pew. The only mention of anything different in the bulletin was the curious interjection of the words "Special Music" between congregational prayer and the offering. As we sat preparing our hearts, prior to the call to worship, this same fellow begins an overwrought rendition of "I Saw The Light" with electric accompaniment. One retired Pastor came by and asked if I wanted to dance, to which I replied in the negative. I looked around the congregation and saw some folks clapping to the tune, some kids dancing in the aisle, some folks looking shocked, one beloved elderly sister holding her hands over her ears and her husband looking apoplectic with tears in his eyes.

The chaos and cacaphony was at that point more than I could bear, so I gathered up my family of 6 and departed, as did the elderly couple.

My daughter had been invited to play her viola with the orchestra last week, when she played some very nice hymns and one metric psalm, and was invited again this week which I forbade after hearing the rehearsal. Seemed kinda spider-webby to me.

Was I wrong? What would you folks recommend I do now?

My problem is not so much with the music, although I am not impressed with the lyrics of either of those songs, but with the flaunting of the Confession and the RPW. One Elder stepped down some months ago over the direction the music was taking, and had approached me last week about my position on EP, to which I responded that I was sympathetic to the idea, although not fully convinced, but that I was already driving 40 miles to attend the nearest nearly confessionally faithful Church I could find.

Why is this stuff happening in the PCA? And what's with always introducing these things prior to the call to worship, then migrating them into the service of worship, which occured with the praise songs some time back?

What say my PB brethren? Pastors?

I know all to well what it's like to be in a church that goes goofy on you. Unfortunately, going to the session is usually nothing more that a formality- unless they are truly Godly men, you will be dismissed as 'over the top'. I would still do so, in the hope that they will hear a biblical argument, but my own experience was that biblical arguments were irrelevant- pragmatism reigned supreme.

I've been there. I feel your pain. Therefor, I encourage you to confront these elders with the Word and, if they repent, great! If they do not and give no biblical defense for their actions, it is time to move on. Also, feel free to speak with other congregants about your challenges. Once a session crossed the line into error, there's no reason why you wouldn't 'bring others with you' in going to a new church- or finding a more TR denomination to sponsor a plant in your area.

To conclude- do what Matthew 18 requires and go to them. But if they find biblically that you are in sin, submit to this. If they toss about a bunch of garbage with vague, out of context biblical references to justify foolishness, then check out the OPC nearby.

Theognome

 

[Ivan]

BTW, although I wasn't there and therefore don't know exactly what I'd do, from your description I believe I would have walked too.

 

[Mushroom]

I think you should go to the OPC 5 miles further away. My

If we decide to do that, then Ben (Hamalas) will have to make room for us on his pew....

Ready for us, Ben?

 

[Knoxienne]

I think you should go to the OPC 5 miles further away. My

If we decide to do that, then Ben (Hamalas) will have to make room for us on his pew....

Ready for us, Ben?

Well, great! The Lord is good.

 

[Edward]

Carefully and prayerfully sort out "preferences" from the "regulative principle" of worship.

A very important distinction and a point worthy of careful consideration.

 

[Hamalas]

I think you should go to the OPC 5 miles further away. My

If we decide to do that, then Ben (Hamalas) will have to make room for us on his pew....

Ready for us, Ben?

I'd hate to see another PCA congregation fall into unbiblical practices, but that would be a nice little silver lining to this cloud! You and yours are welcome anytime brother.

 

[Pergamum]

Why would a viola be okay but not a guitar?

Amplification?

Tone and tenor?

Mood?

I'd prefer a viola.

Any conflict with the church over these "worship wars" might devolve into a matter of preferences unless examples of clear violation of Scripture other than bad taste are brought forth. Once the permissibility of instrumentation is granted, whether a viola or a guitar is "proper' becomes somewhat siubjective.

However, dancing in the aisles seems odd and I would think there would need to be clear justification to do that.

 

[py3ak]

In addition to other points, it might be as well to point out that they are imposing these things on Christians whose consciences are not comfortable. That means they need to have clear Scriptural warrant authorizing such practices, or they need to respect a fragile conscience. Clearly the elderly couple was not comfortable; are they to be entirely unconsidered?

 

[Ivan]

However, dancing in the aisles seems odd and I would think there would need to be clear justification to do that.

Actually, this is what I found most odd...and distasteful.

 

[larryjf]

I would suggest much prayer and Scripture reading about the situation. Get all of your ducks in a row, so to speak.
Consider whether what you are considering is an element or circumstance of worship, whether the Scriptures are clear in supporting your view or the church's practice, and so on.
Then, after much prayer and Scripture set up a meeting with the Session to speak with them about your concerns. If you come to the conclusion that you are on solid biblical ground you need not worry about being a lone voice against the Session, remember...

"A man with God is always in the majority." - John Knox

And if it comes down to you leaving the congregation, take heart in this...

"...cost what it may, to separate ourselves from those who separate themselves from the truth of God is not alone our liberty, but our duty." -C.H. Spurgeon

 

[NaphtaliPress]

This isn't about a difference over a circumstance, which I don't believe this was, but you will get different opinions on that. This is about trustworthy leadership; leadership that has to know how you handle things indifferent, if that is what this was. If these elders were this insensitive to allow this to go ahead to the point two families decided they had to walk out, shame on them. Find a church with elders who know how to handle such things biblically and with care and go there. I wouldn't question your walking out for one second more.

 

[Scott1]

Biblically, its best to take these concerns to your Session.

Appreciate your counsel, brother. They are aware of my position on these matters, and my impression is that they consider it to be one of picayunery.

You're welcome.

You find yourself in an uncomfortable position.

It's easy to say, but know that God appoints our circumstances. You are there for a reason.

I wouldn't assume every elder on session knows your position, especially in its application to every facet of worship or your specific concerns in relation to the regulative principle. Don't assume they know all that, and don't anticipate reaction- your part is to be faithful.

Carefully and prayerfully sort out "preferences" from the "regulative principle" of worship.

Actually, both those songs have some level of endearment to me, being probably the first two 'Christian' songs I learned. My trepidation is with the continual introduction of more and more instrumentation, more and more amplification, the increasing centrality of the 'music ministry' to the service of worship, and now for the first time ever a vocal soloist. I am trying to check myself to be sure this is not a matter of taste, and have so far remained relatively acquiescent to the changes, but this appears to be a determined deconstruction of the RPW. I could be wrong... certainly would not be the first time.

Be specific also so Session can understand the specific instances that appear to violate the regulative principle, not merely general complaint about style or music preference.

Would you consider what I have described to violate the RPW? And why or why not? Any counsel is greatly appreciated.

The fact that this has bothered you for a while is reason enough to "go to your brothers."

Remember to pray for your deacons and elders regularly as they bear the authority and responsibility for setting "tone" and "practice."

We have been, but as with all such things, I find there is room for improvement.

Shall I simply submit to their decisions in this matter, or move to the nearest OPC, about 5 miles further in another direction?

It's difficult. God will bless it, but the process is:

Go to the ones who have caused this. Your process might be, first go to one elder individually with specifics, God might win you an ally.

If nothing happens, then go to session as a whole.

Given the background and history and connection you relate here, it's best not to just leave "dissatisfied." Go through the biblical steps, ask God for grace, maybe He will send you someone who has this same conviction.

Commit to see this through with a humble attitude, for the Honor and Glory of our God.

(And, if you care to, let us know of steps you would like us to pray for you)

 

[blhowes]

When I've been in similar situations, I've struggled to stay in my seat and not walk out of the service. I find it difficult to prepare my heart and keep it focused for worship. I wonder, though, if teens have the same struggle when they sit through music that I'm comfortable with. I've often wondered if my preferences were irrelevant.

 

[AThornquist]

When I've been in similar situations, I've struggled to stay in my seat and not walk out of the service. I find it difficult to prepare my heart and keep it focused for worship. I wonder, though, if teens have the same struggle when they sit through music that I'm comfortable with. I've often wondered if my preferences were irrelevant.

Very good point. Thank you.

 

[Hamalas]

When I've been in similar situations, I've struggled to stay in my seat and not walk out of the service. I find it difficult to prepare my heart and keep it focused for worship. I wonder, though, if teens have the same struggle when they sit through music that I'm comfortable with. I've often wondered if my preferences were irrelevant.

What about God's "preferences"?

 

[AThornquist]

When I've been in similar situations, I've struggled to stay in my seat and not walk out of the service. I find it difficult to prepare my heart and keep it focused for worship. I wonder, though, if teens have the same struggle when they sit through music that I'm comfortable with. I've often wondered if my preferences were irrelevant.

What about God's "preferences"?

Even though this basically is asking to debate the RPW and what is or is not acceptable, let me approach the statement in this way: even singing Psalms a capella involves human preferences.

 

[Knoxienne]

When I've been in similar situations, I've struggled to stay in my seat and not walk out of the service. I find it difficult to prepare my heart and keep it focused for worship. I wonder, though, if teens have the same struggle when they sit through music that I'm comfortable with. I've often wondered if my preferences were irrelevant.

What about God's "preferences"?

Even though this basically is asking to debate the RPW and what is or is not acceptable, let me approach the statement in this way: even singing Psalms a capella involves preferences.

True, a capella Psalm singing also can and may involve preferences, however there's a certain 'political' element attended with praise bands/multiple instruments/dancing and that sort of thing that doesn't exist with more conservative worship styles, either a capella Psalm singing or hymnody to piano/organ accompaniment.