War captive brides and marriage

[TryingToLearn]

Relating to the last question I asked, if the essential component of marriage for the Reformed is consent (see here https://reformedbooksonline.com/topics/topics-by-subject/family/marriage/) what do we make of the war captives? If they had no consent to marriage, it would seem they were not validly married. But if they did have consent, then could not they dissent from the marriage?

 

[Charles Johnson]

Relating to the last question I asked, if the essential component of marriage for the Reformed is consent (see here https://reformedbooksonline.com/topics/topics-by-subject/family/marriage/) what do we make of the war captives? If they had no consent to marriage, it would seem they were not validly married. But if they did have consent, then could not they dissent from the marriage?

The Scripture doesn't really go into the extent to which consent was required specifically from war captive brides, but it is reasonable to assume that they gave it, since 1) consent is required for marriage in general, and so it would be there, and 2) consenting to marriage is not unlikely in such a situation, because in the ancient near east being a wife was a significant step up from being a servant. Among other reasons, a wive's children have a claim to a legitimate inheritance from the father. Add to that, 3) the law protected captured women in other ways; for example, they had to be alloted a time for mourning before the marriage, and they could not be sold as slaves in the case of a divorce (Deut. 21:13-14), so it is reasonable to assume they were spared the much greater dishonor of rape or forcible marriage.

 

[RamistThomist]

It might be along the lines of maintaining order in society. These women would likely be destitute and either become prostitutes or sex slaves. This is more of a containment measure that still gives them a sense of agency. Law in the ancient world sought to preserve and maintain order. Having destitute yet sexually active women in society runs against that.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I was just reading 1st Corinthians 7 the other night. It is interesting how Paul puts an emphasis on a woman being able to marry who she chooses to marry.

"A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord."

So definitely there should be a freedom for a wife to choose her own husband. I don't know how much forcing a marriage should actually be considered a marriage. But to be honest I haven't thought much about this.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I was just reading 1st Corinthians 7 the other night. It is interesting how Paul puts an emphasis on a woman being able to marry who she chooses to marry.

"A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord."

So definitely there should be a freedom for a wife to choose her own husbands. I don't know how much forcing a marriage should actually be considered a marriage. But to be honest I haven't thought much about this.

I've always understood that to mean a wife if her husband dies is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. So a woman who was married and the husband dies can choose her second husband only in the Lord, without anyone else's approval. But this would necessarily exclude women from choosing their own first husbands without the approval of their fathers per 1 Corinthians 7:25-40 KJV. Maybe there's another way to make it all fit together but that's the only one I've found that honors both texts.

 

[TryingToLearn]

The Scripture doesn't really go into the extent to which consent was required specifically from war captive brides, but it is reasonable to assume that they gave it, since 1) consent is required for marriage in general, and so it would be there, and 2) consenting to marriage is not unlikely in such a situation, because in the ancient near east being a wife was a significant step up from being a servant. Among other reasons, a wive's children have a claim to a legitimate inheritance from the father. Add to that, 3) the law protected captured women in other ways; for example, they had to be alloted a time for mourning before the marriage, and they could not be sold as slaves in the case of a divorce (Deut. 21:13-14), so it is reasonable to assume they were spared the much greater dishonor of rape or forcible marriage.

Say they didn’t give consent for whatever reason. Would it then be an invalid marriage, or is this a special case where it can still constitute a valid marriage per positive law?

Also, why is it divorce is permitted in this case just on the bare desire of the husband?

 

[TryingToLearn]

I suppose these are more questions about the interpretation of the passage itself. @iainduguid any thoughts on this re consent and divorce due to mere desire?

Add to this Exodus 21:7-10. Does the daughter have any consent in marriage when she is sold?

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I've always understood that to mean a wife if her husband dies is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. So a woman who was married and the husband dies can choose her second husband only in the Lord, without anyone else's approval. But this would necessarily exclude women from choosing their own first husbands without the approval of their fathers per 1 Corinthians 7:25-40 KJV. Maybe there's another way to make it all fit together but that's the only one I've found that honors both texts.

That's an interesting take. I just did a bit of research, and here's something that popped up.

The Betrothal​

When a young man desired to marry a young woman in ancient Israel, he would prepare a contract or covenant to present to the young woman and her father at the young woman’s home. The contract showed his willingness to provide for the young woman and described the terms under which he would propose marriage. The most important part of the contract was the bride price, the price that the young man was willing to pay to marry the young woman….

If the bride price was agreeable to the young woman’s father, the young man would pour a glass of wine for the young woman. If the young woman drank the wine, it would indicate her acceptance of the proposal.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

That's an interesting take. I just did a bit of research, and here's something that popped up.

The Betrothal​

Interesting details. The father’s acceptance seemed to be much more important in ancient times compared to today.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Interesting details. The father’s acceptance seemed to be much more important in ancient times compared to today.

Yeah for sure.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

One of the many (and insuperable) problems of trying to "map" ancient Israelite covenant-constitutional legislation onto every other social order and time-frame, as if by such attempts at compliance all social ills must surely be remedied. What is permanent about the Israelite constitution and its former Mosaic application is what is moral about it, and no more. Spirit-filled wisdom, and searching all through the Scriptures, and paying special attention to New Testament guidance supplies us with principles and the occasional cross-cultural demand--which we obey without wondering what our neighbors will think.

I would certainly be disturbed if a daughter of mine sought to marry without her parents' input. More, perhaps, if she is in her teens or twenties, than if she is in her thirties or more and for all intents completely emancipated. But still...

Yet, we don't live in the ancient world, or even in the 19th century. We live in a complicated relationship with the world around us, and the countries with governments over us. There are the rules of society, and there are the rules of the church's society. And we are no longer governed in broad social terms by the church's ministry. The family institution remains, and the church functions institutionally as our oversight. Marriage is a civil institution, in which the church and families have great interest; so we work at integrating the boundaries of competing authorities. In one country, that may appear in one way; and in another country some variety is found in that negotiation. The important thing is that we are not left to ourselves, but try to adhere to whatever God may clearly say to us in any case. But the cases will vary, and so may the "right" response.