Singing During the Lord's Supper

[2ndViolinist]

Music during any part of the observance of the Lord's Supper makes me very uneasy... Congregational singing makes me all the more uneasy. Jesus did not sing with His disciples during the very first observance of the sacrament, neither did He command us to. So per the RPW we too should not, right?

What are everyone's thoughts? I have read through this old thread:

http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/37317-Music-during-the-Lord-s-Supper

Still, I would love to know present members' thoughts.

 

[Hamalas]

The answer to this question would hinge on whether one views singing/music during the Lord's Supper as an element or a circumstance.

 

[Andres]

What do you mean by singing "during" the Lord's Supper? Could you explain how your church practices the Lord's Supper?

 

[Afterthought]

What do you mean by singing "during" the Lord's Supper? Could you explain how your church practices the Lord's Supper?

E.g., Our practice is to sit at a table to partake of the Lord's Supper. We sing as we get seated at the table, and then after the Lord's Supper is administered, we sing as we return to our original seats.

Edit: I see ADKing already mentioned this in the linked thread.

Edit2: My unexpert opinion (seeing how I have a post in this thread now) is that, so far as singing while the elements are distributed goes, the singing is not necessary for that action. Neither is it necessary for the performance of the duties of meditation (per the WLC) while the elements are distributed. Furthermore, I doubt proponents of the singing would say the singing is not drawing near to God to worship him. So it cannot be a circumstance; it would need divine warrant. But supposing it was a circumstance, (1) it seems to me best to keep to the original institution of the Supper in order to avoid superstitious habits from developing--no singing there, so none should be done now; (2) the singing would hinder from the duties the WLC mentions since it hinders the duties directed to the self and hinders one from focusing on the elements as they are being distributed ("diligently observe the sacramental elements and actions").

 

[Romans922]

No singing during the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is an element, it shouldn't be divided. We don't have preaching and hearing of the Word and stop in the middle and sing. It interrupts the focus on what is happening.

 

[KeithW]

The Lutheran church I am attending also has congregational singing during the Lord's supper. They have the words of invocation. Then the church is silent as the pastor/elders/deacons are served. Then congregational singing starts as each row of people stand up, walk forward, stop singing as they eat and drink the elements, then resume singing as they return to their seats.

This puzzles me. From a practical standpoint it prevents us from spending any time considering our own sin or discerning the Lord's body. (1 Cor. 11:27-32) My speculation is that it shows complete reliance on the idea that the Lord's supper is a mean's of grace. As long as the word's of institution are spoken then no time is needed for contemplation or understanding.

 

[TylerRay]

I used to be a member of a church which sang during the administration, so that as the elements reached each individual, he would stop singing, eat, drink, and pick up the song again. I think that such a practice is distracting, and I think it is disrespectful to the Lord who intends to teach us by the sacrament.

It's like turning up a stereo while someone is trying to talk to you. You might get the gist of what he's saying, but you certainly aren't listening as intently as you could be.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

We observe the Supper monthly. Our order is as follows:

• Invocation
• Hymn
• Sermon
• Hymn
• Invitation and Fencing
• Prayer of Humble Access
• Words of Institution
• Distribution and Partaking of the Elements
• Prayer of Thanksgiving
• Hymn
• Benediction

We do sing hymns before and after, but not during the actual observance.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

At our church during the actual observance there is no music or singing. As the elements are being distrubuted I will read some Scripture passages, but when the elders are done and I serve them, then we partake together and sit in silence for a minute or two.

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

Agreed. The modern church is deathly afraid of silence in its services.

 

[2ndViolinist]

What do you mean by singing "during" the Lord's Supper? Could you explain how your church practices the Lord's Supper?

Whoops, I should have included an explanation in the original post. Elders first pass out loaves of bread which everyone breaks and takes a piece from. Usually the congregation will sing a hymn during the distribution. After everyone eats their piece of bread, the elders distribute small cups of wine to everyone. Again, the congregation might sing a hymn, or the pastor may read a passage from Scripture before everyone drinks. Sometimes there is instrumental music instead of Scripture reading or singing.

 

[bookslover]

No singing during the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is an element, it shouldn't be divided. We don't have preaching and hearing of the Word and stop in the middle and sing. It interrupts the focus on what is happening.

Actually, in Dutch churches (where Joel Beeke used to pastor, for example), the preaching of the sermon stops about 2/3 of the way. The congregation sings. Then, the pastor preaches the last 1/3 of his sermon. First time I heard this (on a recording from Beeke's congregation), I was surprised and perplexed. Yes, as you say, it interrupts the focus on the flow of argument of the sermon.

 

[2ndViolinist]

​

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

The modern church deathly afraid of silence in its services.

Those were two thoughts I had as well. Until now, my approach to this part of the worship service has been to remain silent. Should I bring up my concern to the pastor or elders? What say you all?​

 

[Pilgrim]

The Lutheran church I am attending also has congregational singing during the Lord's supper. They have the words of invocation. Then the church is silent as the pastor/elders/deacons are served. Then congregational singing starts as each row of people stand up, walk forward, stop singing as they eat and drink the elements, then resume singing as they return to their seats.

I visited a LCMS congregation some time ago and this was also their practice. Perhaps this is how it is done by all of them? About 2-4 hymns were sung during the admistration of communion.

This puzzles me. From a practical standpoint it prevents us from spending any time considering our own sin or discerning the Lord's body. (1 Cor. 11:27-32) My speculation is that it shows complete reliance on the idea that the Lord's supper is a mean's of grace. As long as the word's of institution are spoken then no time is needed for contemplation or understanding.

I thought similarly. Given their emphasis on the objective nature of the sacraments, my guess is that they would say that our concerns amount to navel-gazing subjectivism if not morbid introspection.

 

[Andres]

Should I bring up my concern to the pastor or elders? What say you all?​

I don't have an answer for you on whether the way your church serves the Lord's Supper is "right" or "wrong", however I do think if this is an issue that is of concern to you, then yes, you should bring it to the attention of your session. Speaking as an elder, I would always want to know if there are parts of our worship that concerned a member. It doesn't necessarily mean that your session will change things based on your concerns (they may, you never know) but perhaps they can help you understand why things are done the way they are. It nothing else, it's good to meet with your session over concerns you have, rather than just let them stew for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

[Peairtach]

Singing a Psalm - often part of Psalm 116 or 118 - on coming to, and leaving, the Table is the tradition in Scottish Presbyterianism.

Prayerful silence when the elements are being served and consumed.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

At what point should we become more thankful for what we have--a church with a faithful ministry, that makes a discernible effort to keep its activity within lawful bounds--than disturbed by all the church's imperfections--which maybe? maybe not? what ya'll think? I feel like I'm in a college dorm room.

There is no perfect church. There are imperfect people in every imperfect church. When some people have whittled down the group of sinners with whom they can be comfortable worshipping to five or six, and have shunned the imperfect ministry for its manifest failures, they have still an imperfect church.

When will the people see the church, not as she "is" in the world, but as she "is" in reality? When you love a church, you will to see her beauties, not her blemishes.

If a congregation's failures are too much to live with, then get a divorce. But please don't drag her name through the mud on your way to greener pasture.

 

[Rom]

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

Strangely enough, this has never been an issue for us.

 

[Philip]

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

The churches I have been at have usually had one of two solutions to this:

a) Everyone takes together after the distribution, including the accompanist.
b) The musicians/choir partake first and then begin the hymns.

 

[Gforce9]

Mood music not only is unnecessary it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

Strangely enough, this has never been an issue for us.

Rom,
How do you guys handle the interpretive dancers?

 

[2ndViolinist]

At what point should we become more thankful for what we have--a church with a faithful ministry, that makes a discernible effort to keep its activity within lawful bounds--than disturbed by all the church's imperfections--which maybe? maybe not? what ya'll think? I feel like I'm in a college dorm room.

Reverend Buchanan, you and several others on many threads have provided the most helpful input to me. Thank you for your comments.

Indeed I thank God often for providing me with a church home and blessed friendships with more fellow pilgrims than I can count. And I do try to show my pastor and members of the congregation appreciation for their faithful ministries. I don't want to sound like I'm ungrateful, but with the brevity of my posts--I can write a lot but it takes time--I can see how I might appear so. We are to give thanks in everything. Certainly that must include giving thanks for being part of the church, imperfections and all.

Being relatively new to the Reformed faith, I have spent the past few years learning about its history, theology, and the structure of the Lord's Day worship service (among many other things). In an old thread of mine, someone cautioned me against having a reactionary approach when coming across anything unfamiliar. I know that all Scripture is "profitable for teaching," and there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. This is just another reason why I joined PuritanBoard--to expand my network of advisers. In person, I don't have one spiritual father, I have many, and their convictions are just as varied as those of the people here. I am just trying to figure out where I stand.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Kat,
I appreciate your conscientious study. Perhaps you are more/properly interested in getting square on this point, than are leaders in your congregation? But, they are your leaders at the present time; and (hopefully) they encourage or allow this singing during that communion service only as they have studied the matter and concluded its prudential wisdom.

Maybe they'd be wrong. Other churches have a different practice, and perhaps for as good or better reasons. Or, some do something formally better, but for no good reason. That's sure not helpful!

I look at things like this from the perspective of a leader, an elder and pastor. Mine is a tiny, rural church; yours seems like a rich, cosmopolitan melting pot filled with many gifts of nature, as well as supernatural ones. But I'm guessing the leaders there value every soul that God sends their way; and want to see that person nourished and grown in grace; and would hate to see even one person alienated, uncomfortable, wounded. They would not want to be weakened by departure or by discontent. Especially if it came about by what (I could imagine) they thought seemed like a concern mainly over aesthetics.

Our Communions are commemorated in silence, except for what I say in administration. The nearest sister-church (happens to be in another denomination) has a much larger congregation, a much longer serving the elements, and they do the singing during the dispensing. If we ever grew to that size (?!), I'd like to see us keep the quietude. But I doubt I'm in position to condemn another session's decision.

Pray for your session. The church as a whole would be healthier and more consistent with the Word and its confession if the people prayed with holy fervor for the blessings that can be had in no other way. And we need prayer the more, because we are too self-confident, and sure of the correctness of our limited vision. "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done," as only Christ looking down from heaven can execute it.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

At what point should we become more thankful for what we have--a church with a faithful ministry, that makes a discernible effort to keep its activity within lawful bounds--than disturbed by all the church's imperfections--which maybe? maybe not? what ya'll think? I feel like I'm in a college dorm room.

There is no perfect church. There are imperfect people in every imperfect church. When some people have whittled down the group of sinners with whom they can be comfortable worshipping to five or six, and have shunned the imperfect ministry for its manifest failures, they have still an imperfect church.

When will the people see the church, not as she "is" in the world, but as she "is" in reality? When you love a church, you will to see her beauties, not her blemishes.

If a congregation's failures are too much to live with, then get a divorce. But please don't drag her name through the mud on your way to greener pasture.

 

[Andrew P.C.]

There is no perfect church. There are imperfect people in every imperfect church. When some people have whittled down the group of sinners with whom they can be comfortable worshipping to five or six, and have shunned the imperfect ministry for its manifest failures, they have still an imperfect church.

I am not understanding the point of your post. From what I'm reading in the thread, then this comment, I'd conclude you are chiding the OP or some people in this thread for talking about a practice that our Lord specifically commands us to do, according to the way he prescribes.

 

[Edward]

The nearest sister-church (happens to be in another denomination) has a much larger congregation, a much longer serving the elements, and they do the singing during the dispensing. If we ever grew to that size (?!), I'd like to see us keep the quietude. But I doubt I'm in position to condemn another session's decision.

A few moments of silence while serving a few dozen is quantitatively different than the extended silence that would be required while serving 1000. I fear those who think that the average congregant can concentrate on their spiritual state without the mind wandering during 10 or 15 minutes of silence are being unduly optimistic.

it forces the pianist/organist/musician to abstain from properly taking the Lord's Supper.

The choir is dismissed to their seats in the congregation before the sermon and subsequent sacrament; the organist stops playing after the congregation is served; he pauses while the elements are being served to the several dozen elders, and then everyone partakes of the elements together. (Unless they are doing the line up and come to the front method, which raises different issues.) The musical gap is probably not much different, time wise, than it would be in a small church.

 

[Andres]

A few moments of silence while serving a few dozen is quantitatively different than the extended silence that would be required while serving 1000.

This could probably be it's own topic/discussion for another thread.

 

[Romans922]

Just the 'silence' part in worship could be it's own thread.

 

[Andres]

Just the 'silence' part in worship could be it's own thread.

You're right, but I was referring to a church of 1000 being it's own thread.

 

[Romans922]

Just the 'silence' part in worship could be it's own thread.

You're right, but I was referring to a church of 1000 being it's own thread.

I know, that's why I responded with what I said.

 

[KeithW]

There are different types of music which could take place during the Lord's supper. Silence. Instrumental music. Choir music (with or without accompaniment). And congregational singing. The original post is about congregational singing. So what is that?

Congregational singing requires members of the congregation to sing. They have to pay attention to the words so they say the right words. They have to pay attention to the melody so they use the right rhythm and hit the right notes. If your church has its members walk to the front for the Lord's supper they are walking around the sanctuary as they are singing. If you are sitting in the pews everyone around you is singing as well as the people walking down the aisles.

I cannot participate in music and at the same time have my heart/mind/understanding engaged in a different topic. Congregational singing prevents me from thinking about what the LORD has done, what His broken body means, what His shed blood means (you know, all of these NT verses which speak about His blood?), what a covenant is, what the new covenant is, what the new covenant promises are.

Luke 22:19,20 And he [Jesus] took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

If some sort of music is required during this portion of the service then the downside of the form of music which is congregational singing needs to be understood.