Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Is anything in your life divorced from your church membership and elder oversight? If so, what would those things be?
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My wife and children. my job, and basically anything not related to church activities.Is anything in your life divorced from your church membership and elder oversight? If so, what would those things be?
Indeed. The church possesses the keys to bind and to loose. The current modern evangelistic mindset that would claim the church has no say in a member's "private lives" is out of bounds. (e.g., Point 5 of Rev. Strange's quote above.)I don't expect the session to plan my lunches for me, but I would fully expect them to help correct myself and family if life and practice were out of step with our shared (and publically committed to) Christian beliefs.
There is a biblical balance to be maintained on this issue though, a son one extreme, there are Christians who feel no accountability to anyone other than Jesus Himself, and on the other extreme, there are groups such as in the so called Shepherding Movement that pretty much told you who to marry, what job could have etc.Scott,
I hadn't thought much about this specifically, but I think of the charge to me as a member of the OPC and the charge to the session over me. I think this means they have more "right" than the individualistic, American, evangelical mindset is willing to grant. Since doctrine and life are both covered in the charge, the application may be broad. I don't expect the session to plan my lunches for me, but I would fully expect them to help correct myself and family if life and practice were out of step with our shared (and publically committed to) Christian beliefs.
My wife and children. my job, and basically anything not related to church activities.
Rest assured, if you are abusing your wife, abusing your children, and or selling drugs as a job, I am confident your local church should have something to say and do in the matter.My wife and children. my job, and basically anything not related to church activities.
When I was accepted as a member of my congregation I had to take an oath to be subject to discipline, should it be necessary, by the session of my OPC.Chapter I
The Nature and Purposes of Discipline
1. Ecclesiastical discipline is the exercise of that authority which the Lord Jesus Christ has committed to the visible church for the preservation of its purity, peace, and good order.
2. Administrative discipline is concerned with the maintenance of good order in the government of the church in other than judicial cases. The purpose of its exercise is that all rights may be preserved and all obligations faithfully discharged.
3. Judicial discipline is concerned with the prevention and correction of offenses, an offense being defined as anything in the doctrine or practice of a member of the church which is contrary to the Word of God. The purpose of judicial discipline is to vindicate the honor of Christ, to promote the purity of his church, and to reclaim the offender.
4. All members of the church, both communicants and those who are members by virtue of baptism only, are under the care of the church, and subject to ecclesiastical discipline including administrative and judicial discipline.
There is a biblical balance to be maintained on this issue though, a son one extreme, there are Christians who feel no accountability to anyone other than Jesus Himself, and on the other extreme, there are groups such as in the so called Shepherding Movement that pretty much told you who to marry, what job could have etc.
abusus non tollit usum, "abuse does not preclude proper use."Most certainly, there are abusers of the authority given them. Shame and judgment await them. This does not negate God's authority via church officers, however...
Many would suggest that church leadership have no business in a member's "personal life" unless they are invited in.
abusus non tollit usum, "abuse does not preclude proper use."
Here is an issue that often comes up in the Gothard/Vision Forum type circles: if the session finds out you and your spouse are using birth control (NFP, condoms, etc; not even "the pill") can they discipline you?
I have heard of Reformed Baptist elders asking for pay stubs from congregants to make sure they were tithing. A normal person would say, "None of your business buddy." But strangely enough, many parishioners are conditioned to believe that such requests do not cross personal boundaries and are not offended when, in fact, they should be.
Perg,
I agree that there is liberty of conscience and that it should be carefully protected. I would also acquiesce that there is some number of over-bearing folk in office out there. To collect pay stubs at offering time is certainly out-of-bounds. For the Deacons or a Session to ask about or even insist the producing of income/expenditures when someone is asking for financial help would be wholly appropriate, I think. A given situation may dictate the level of "intrusion" and sometimes an "intrusion" (as perceived by the intrusee) is the duty of the office-bearer, no? Let us pray for our officers!
Fred,
I'm not ready for educated Latin yet; I'm still working on my pig Latin![]()
1- How are you determining what is appropriate and not appropriate? What are the principles involved?
2- The Reformed Baptist church-goer who went to this RB Church in Kentucky reasoned, 3- since it was the duty of the elders to ensure holy conduct among the members, then it was totally appropriate for elders to make sure giving to the church was being done because this is one aspect of worship.
4- What happens when a lay member believes something is not appropriate but the elder thinks it is perfectly appropriate? Especially in churches where obedience to elders is emphasized?
Are financial offerings/church support, compulsory? If they are, what means does the church have at it's disposal to make sure the flock is not sinning by not contributing? Envelopes?