Does God have a body?

[Arch2k]

I need some help from some of the smarter people on the board.

The following was posted on another thread:

Originally posted by Saiph
Jesus is God.
Jesus has physical attributes.
God has physical attributes.

Can we follow this line of reasoning and be consistent with The Chalcedonian Creed?

I at first glance want to say that Mark is confusing the two natures by saying this, but when I try to reconcile, I find myself seperating the natures!

Also, if one CAN say that God "has a body," how does that reconcile with the WCF:

I. There is but one only,[1] living, and true God,[2] who is infinite in being and perfection,[3] a most pure spirit,[4] invisible,[5] without body, parts,[6] or passions;[7] immutable,[8] immense,[9] eternal,[10] incomprehensible,[11] almighty,[12] most wise,[13] most holy,[14] most free,[15] most absolute;[16] working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will,[17] for his own glory;[18] most loving,[19] gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;[20] the rewarder of them that diligently seek him;[21] and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments,[22] hating all sin,[23] and who will by no means clear the guilty.[24]

Mark - I mean this in no way trying to "prove you wrong" or anything like that. I only singled your post out because it raised this question for me, and I think it would be edifying (at least to me) to hear from others smarter than I on this issue.

 

[Peter]

My inclination is that it is acceptable to say God does have a body. Of course we mean by this that the Son of God has a perfect human nature which includes physical attributes. We can say this because of the union between his humanity and divinity in a single Person. The council of Ephesus is famous for condemning Nestorianism (the belief in 2 persons) and even, by reason of Christ's hypostasis, declared Mary the Mother of God.



WCF VIII:VII. Christ, in the work of mediation, acts according to both natures, by each nature doing that which is proper to itself; yet, by reason of the unity of the person, that which is proper to one nature is sometimes in Scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature.[38] ACT 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. JOH 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 1JO 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Formula of Ephesus "We confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and body subsisting;1589 as to his Godhead begotten of the Father before all time, but as to his manhood, born of the Virgin Mary in the end of the days for us and for our salvation; of the same essence with the Father as to his Godhead, and of the same substance with us as to his manhood;1590 for two natures are united with one another.1591 Therefore we confess one Christ, one Lord, and one Son. By reason of this union, which yet is without confusion,1592 we also confess that the holy Virgin is mother of God, because God the Logos was made flesh and man, and united with himself the temple [humanity] even from the conception; which temple he took from the Virgin. But concerning the words of the Gospel and Epistles respecting Christ, we know that theologians apply some which refer to the one person to the two natures in common, but separate others as referring to the two natures, and assign the expressions which become God to the Godhead of Christ, but the expressions of humiliation to his manhood."

 

[Arch2k]

Thanks Peter.

I have read A Meditation on the Doctrine of the Person of Christ which I believe answers my question (kind of). I would like to meditate on this a bit more and hear some more from others on the subject.

 

[Peters]

I at first glance want to say that Mark is confusing the two natures by saying this, but when I try to reconcile, I find myself seperating the natures!

Jeff,

It is my understanding that the two natures of the Christ are TO be separate and distinct and not mixed, though united in a single person. Why is separating the natures a problem for you?

Good thread.

 

[Arch2k]

Marcos,

To say you can seperate the divine and human nature is to deny the hypostatic union as classically defined in the The Chalcedonian Creed:

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

My son James (3) knows the answer to that question:

What is God?
James: God is a Spirit and DOESN'T have a body like men!

 

[Peter]

Rich, look at the scripture references for WCF Chp 8 paragraph 7:

ACT 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Does God bleed? Yes. Christ is God and he purchased the church with his blood. We understand though that Christ Godhead didn't beed.

"by reason of the unity of the person, that which is proper to one nature is sometimes in Scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature"

 

[Saiph]

God does not have a body, when we are speaking of Him ontically or His essence. However, when we are using the word as metonymn, He does have a body. He became flesh and dwelt among us. Not only that, the church is the body of Christ.

As long as we define what we mean by the statement "God's body", we do not run the risk of demolishing the hypostatic union.

The same issue arises with the phrase "mother of God".

 

[Peters]

Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
Marcos,

To say you can seperate the divine and human nature is to deny the hypostatic union as classically defined in the The Chalcedonian Creed:

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

Is your concern with my use of the word "separate" because the word "separate" is used in the negative in the creed? It says that they are "distinct". When i say "separate" i mean "not mixed but distinct", which is what i gather is meant by the creed's "without confusion". Do you suppose "separate" means "not united"?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by Peter
Rich, look at the scripture references for WCF Chp 8 paragraph 7:

ACT 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Does God bleed? Yes. Christ is God and he purchased the church with his blood. We understand though that Christ Godhead didn't beed.

"by reason of the unity of the person, that which is proper to one nature is sometimes in Scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature"

Hey man. The Catechism for Small Children says...

It was a vain attempt at humor.

 

[Ron]

Does the Trinity have a body? No

Does the essence of God have a body? No

Does the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, have a body? Yes

It is simply equivocal to ask whether God has a body.

 

[Saiph]

Agreed Ron. A question that is equivocal in nature . . . I like it. . .

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by Ron
Does the Trinity have a body? No

Does the essence of God have a body? No

Does the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, have a body? Yes

It is simply equivocal to ask whether God has a body.

i think a body defines itself in its limitations. being ubiquitous, which being an attribute of God, defines itself as having no limitation. God does not occupy space or contain matter, he is metaphysical. i certainly do not want to dispute (this is not a rhetorical quesion), but how can Christ have physical body now which contains matter and be omnipresent? if we say that He does, do we not deny the Trinity, because God the Father and God the Holy Ghost are metaphysical?