Argument against Exclusive Psalmody from the Psalms

[Romans922]

To play devil's advocate a bit. One thought I have always had to this argument then is why do we create our own prayers then? We have examples in scripture as well, we have one from Jesus himself. How about sermons? We have many examples of these in scripture as well.

Prayers are not Singing, preaching is not prayers, reading is not preaching. Do you create your own reading of the Scriptures? No. Because it is a separate and distinct element.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Without the revelation of the NT, the OT truth of Jesus is not fully revealed.

“Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

 

[Romans922]

The Scriptures are sufficient.


Luke 22:44-45 defeats your argument. Remembering that the Psalms is the most quoted book in the NT.

As pointed above, your arguments are very similar to Marcionism, which is akin to Dispensationalism.


Finally, since you are making the argument, you must be the one to prove specifically your assertion. You don't get to make assertions, and then ask others to prove why your assertion is true...or wrong. You have to first prove your assertion. So what about the person and work of Christ is not found in the Psalms? Name some.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Here is a good example of the OP - if you only sing Psalms, you can never fully sing of the work of Jesus as the mediator of a new (and better) covenant:

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. [Hebrews 12:22-24 ESV]

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Yes, this supports my issue with EP - whose name will you declare? Lots of ways to say the Psalms declare the role and purpose of Jesus, but not His revealed name.

Again, this thread is about your issue with EP. But the question is, what does God want (and command) in worship? It doesn’t matter what our issues are.

What are any comments from those who don’t hold to exclusive psalmody on Psalm 22:22 and Hebrews 2:12?

 

[panta dokimazete]

Y'all need to make the connection for me concerning Marcionism. Otherwise, you are imputing heresy on me and I ask the mods to delete your comments.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Again, this thread is about your issue with EP. But the question is, what does God want (and command) in worship? It doesn’t matter what our issues are.

What are any comments from those who don’t hold to exclusive psalmody on Psalm 22:22 and Hebrews 2:12?

I showed what God wants and commands in worship concerning Jesus in the OP.

 

[beloved7]

One thing that I have always wondered, since we’re on the subject, why would it be that only the psalms are commanded in corporate worship? Scripture provides us with other songs that we could sing, and those are the Word of God as well. Why are those not commanded? Exodus, Deuteronomy, 1 & 2 Samuel etc all have songs.

Please receive this question with the spirit that I am asking, as it’s not my intention to quarrel. Personally I think what other reformed churches do in their house is their own business. Just genuinely curious.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Seeing you didn't really engage with my post, and continue to reassert the unproven premise, I will be bowing out of the discussion.

Copy that - be blessed. The "New" in New Testament proves that the Psalms are not exhaustive concerning Jesus.

 

[Romans922]

Here is a good example of the OP - if you only sing Psalms, you can never fully sing of the work of Jesus as the mediator of a new (and better) covenant:

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. [Hebrews 12:22-24 ESV]

Uh, Psalm 110

 

[panta dokimazete]

“Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

Not sure of the point, here - you wouldn't know about this if you didn't have the NT.

 

[Scottish Presbyterian]

To play devil's advocate a bit. One thought I have always had to this argument then is why do we create our own prayers then? We have examples in scripture as well, we have one from Jesus himself. How about sermons? We have many examples of these in scripture as well.

We have command and example in scripture for both of these.

 

[Joshua]

What meaneth this clownery?

 

[panta dokimazete]

Uh, Psalm 110

"types and shadows" - you wouldn't know this if you didn't have the NT revelation

 

[retroGRAD3]

Prayers are not Singing, preaching is not prayers, reading is not preaching. Do you create your own reading of the Scriptures? No. Because it is a separate and distinct element.

I don't think you understood at all what I was asking.

We have command and example in scripture for both of these.

I must have wrote something very confusing. I know we are commanded in scripture to Sing, Pray, and Preach. What I am asking is why for the singing part, is it ONLY Psalms, but then for praying and preaching we are able to create our own and not use the examples in scripture as with the Psalms? You said that when we create hymns that is adding to the word of God. Why isn't praying our own prayers adding to the word of God? Why aren't our own sermons adding to the word of God? We already have perfect examples of these in scripture (from our Lord himself). This is a serious question of mine when considering EP, so please do not strawman man and act like I am saying we shouldn't pray and preach. That is not what I said. If what I am saying in unclear then I will attempt to clarify more.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Another argument for the OP - with EP, the church can never sing in worship, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" - a mighty deed worthy of our praise only obscurely referenced in the Psalms.

 

[Rom]

I don't think you understood at all what I was asking.


I must have wrote something very confusing. I know we are commanded in scripture to Sing, Pray, and Preach. What I am asking is why for the singing part, is it ONLY Psalms, but then for praying and preaching we are able to create our own and not use the examples in scripture as with the Psalms? You said that when we create hymns that is adding to the word of God. Why isn't praying our own prayers adding to the word of God? Why aren't our own sermons adding to the word of God? This is a serious question of mine when considering EP, so please do not strawman man and act like I am saying we shouldn't pray and preach. That is not what I said. If what I am saying in unclear then I will attempt to clarify more.

The command is "preach the Word" (2 Timothy 4:2) and the command is "After this manner therefore pray ye:" (Matthew 6:9). There is no like command to write songs of praise. That is the argument, if you are interested in it.

 

[panta dokimazete]

The command is "preach the Word" (2 Timothy 4:2) and the command is "After this manner therefore pray ye:" (Matthew 6:9). There is no like command to write songs of praise. That is the argument, if you are interested in it.

You are clearly ignoring the standing commands in the OP and subsequent commands to write "new songs".

 

[Jeri Tanner]

What I am asking is why for the singing part, is it ONLY Psalms, but then for praying and preaching we are able to create our own and not use the examples in scripture as with the Psalms?

A quick thing to ponder and consider is that the church is being ‘asked’ to confess something with their mouths. A song is being “put into our mouths” (Deuteronomy 31:19). We can withhold the “amen” from preaching and from prayer made by another. But it’s important that, since the sheep are commanded to sing, it be without error.

 

[Rom]

Another argument for the OP - with EP, the church can never sing in worship, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" - a mighty deed worthy of our praise only obscurely referenced in the Psalms.

Jesus did not think it to be obscure when he explained his purpose and presence on the Cross from out of Psalm 22. Instead, we sing with Jesus when we sing Psalm 22, united to Him through faith - and know His sufferings for the sake of sinners.

You are clearly ignoring the standing commands in the OP and subsequent commands to write "new songs".

Sing new songs. Not write them. In the same way that you have a new heart, and there are new moons, and how Reformed see a new covenant. Not something ex-nihilo but renewed. The psalms are themselves new songs when you sing them in Christ. See Psalm 22 for instance.

 

[panta dokimazete]

More substantiation for the OP - "Jesus rose from the grave and appeared to many" - another mighty work that can never be sung, according to EP.

 

[panta dokimazete]

A quick thing to ponder and consider is that the church is being ‘asked’ to confess something with their mouths. A song is being “put into our mouths” (Deuteronomy 31:19). We can withhold the “amen” from preaching and from prayer made by another. But it’s important that, since we are commanded to sing, it be without error.

But since we are commanded to sing of all Jesus' works and deeds, which the Psalm do not, this is an invalid point.

 

[Romans922]

Another argument for the OP - with EP, the church can never sing in worship, "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" - a mighty deed worthy of our praise only obscurely referenced in the Psalms.

Brother, if you have not sown tears singing Psalm 22...

I'm going to have to agree with Joshua above, this is absolute clownery.


His resurrection - Ps. 16

 

[Jeri Tanner]

More substantiation for the OP - "Jesus rose from the grave and appeared to many" - another mighty work that can never be sung.

Psalm 118.

 

[Rom]

More substantiation for the OP - "Jesus rose from the grave and appeared to many" - another mighty work that can never be sung.

You literally miss that it is through a psalm (Psalm 16) that Peter establishes this very thing. Acts 2:25-36. Is this serious?

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.​

 

[Joshua]

But since we are commanded to sing of all Jesus works and deeds, which the Psalm do not, this is an invalid point.

This is absurd. The Scriptures don’t even record all of Christ’s works and deeds; ergo, your interpretation of the command cannot maintain.

 

[retroGRAD3]

The command is "preach the Word" (2 Timothy 4:2) and the command is "After this manner therefore pray ye:" (Matthew 6:9). There is no like command to write songs of praise. That is the argument, if you are interested in it.

A quick thing to ponder and consider is that the church is being ‘asked’ to confess something with their mouths. A song is being “put into our mouths” (Deuteronomy 31:19). We can withhold the “amen” from preaching and from prayer made by another. But it’s important that, since we are commanded to sing, it be without error.

These are helpful in trying to understand the EP position. However, I am still not sure they are completely airtight from an interpretation and argument standpoint. I can tell you personally that I think the Psalms are far better than most Hymns (although there are some good hymns). Because of that fact, I am basically EP, but it is more of a preference thing rather than out of conviction (at the moment). I would also state, I really wish the OPC would throw out the songbook. Maybe not every OPC has one of these.

 

[panta dokimazete]

This is absurd. The Scriptures don’t even record all of Christ’s works and deeds; ergo, your interpretation of the command cannot maintain.

We can only sing of that which we know. "All" is inclusive of "all Scripture". Nice try.

 

[Joshua]

“Nice try?” What do you think I’m trying? You’re all over the place with assertions, and it’s ridiculous.

 

[panta dokimazete]

You literally miss that it is through a psalm (Psalm 16) that Peter establishes this very thing. Acts 2:25-36. Is this serious?

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.​

Seriously, where is "Jesus rose from the grave and appeared to many" explicitly revealed in the Psalms? Answer - it is only in "types and shadows". We have a New Testament that reveals all this clearly and explicitly, therefore we should sing songs proclaiming the truth of the New Testament works and deeds of Jesus, as the Psalms command.