Using a notebook in the pew?

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Eoghan

Puritan Board Senior
I was sitting in church this morning taking notes on the sermon. He was jumping about using the concept of a "portico" as a kesher to jump from John 5 to Jeremiah. I thought I really want to look up these verses and check the greek/hebrew.

Then I thought of esword and online bible :book2: with the LXX on a little Asus eee or Acer aspire one.

Which would be better and will both run XP OK? (I assume esword and the canadian "online bible" both require windows.

My wife :hug: thinks that there is a certain irony that I would contemplate being the first to use an electronic Bible and the last to give up the hymn book for the PowerPoint projector. :oops: (Last two years I have continued using the hymn book despite them no longer giving out the numbers)

:judge:
 
esword runs on many platforms, windows is not required. I find computers to be distracting in service however. Why not just cary an NA27 and LXX if you don't want to use something like Leningrad or Stuttgart?
 
It's wonderful that the sermon prompted some questions, but I would think it much better to take some notes and go home and study those things on your own time. Personally, I think its highly inappropriate to bring a laptop/notebook to service. We are there to worship the Lord first and foremost, and I don't see how anyone can give God their full and undivided attention if they are busy looking up things on a notebook. And I would imagine that it would be a distraction to other people as well. I would just caution against using a notebook during service, just my humble opinion.
 
esword runs on many platforms, windows is not required. I find computers to be distracting in service however. Why not just cary an NA27 and LXX if you don't want to use something like Leningrad or Stuttgart?

Are you sure about that?

"Do you have a version of e-Sword for MAC?

I won't be developing a version of e-Sword specifically for MAC, but I have created an online interactive version: "e-Sword LIVE". Just visit the following URL and register to get access to all features: http://live.e-sword.net"
e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge

It might run on Linux with WINE, but I'm unfamiliar with versions that run on non-windows platforms. And the online version would only work with an aircard or if the church had a wireless setup.
 
esword runs on many platforms, windows is not required. I find computers to be distracting in service however. Why not just cary an NA27 and LXX if you don't want to use something like Leningrad or Stuttgart?

Are you sure about that?

"Do you have a version of e-Sword for MAC?

I won't be developing a version of e-Sword specifically for MAC, but I have created an online interactive version: "e-Sword LIVE". Just visit the following URL and register to get access to all features: http://live.e-sword.net"
e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge

It might run on Linux with WINE, but I'm unfamiliar with versions that run on non-windows platforms. And the online version would only work with an aircard or if the church had a wireless setup.

Yes I have a copy of esword running on my mac as well as macsword, Logos and accordance
 
Personally, I think its highly inappropriate to bring a laptop/notebook to service. We are there to worship the Lord first and foremost, and I don't see how anyone can give God their full and undivided attention if they are busy looking up things on a notebook.

I pull out a Bible and look things up during the Sermon. In theory, at least, doing it electronically isn't any different. And taking notes electronically isn't any different than writing in the margins or in a notebook.

And I would imagine that it would be a distraction to other people as well.

Initially, it could be as a novelty, but folks would get used to it. I've seen them used in SS classes, but not yet in the main service. But I won't be surprised first time I see one.
 
The bible never gives us real commands or suggestions on what would and wouldn't be allowed for note taking. Lets be honest, there is nothing.

You could say using a notebook is more distracting, but that would depend upon the person, and it wouldn't have any verse of scripture that really supports this view.

I think it's really up to you, if you can use it with a clear conscience, go for it.
 
I was sitting in church this morning taking notes on the sermon. He was jumping about using the concept of a "portico" as a kesher to jump from John 5 to Jeremiah. I thought I really want to look up these verses and check the greek/hebrew.

Then I thought of esword and online bible :book2: with the LXX on a little Asus eee or Acer aspire one.

Is that what you were thinking about during worship? Sounds like it might be a distraction.


Your minister has spent hours in prayerful consideration of the message to be delivered. He has also utilized many of the resources that you would want to access during worship. My advice is to focus on hearing the word of God and save your private library for personal study time.
 
I say any tool that is profitable for you and not a distraction to the rest of the congregation is a good thing. Though I would caution against following a topic too far afield. Your primary focus should be on the Word being preached.
 
Maybe you could do it on your phone if you've got one of those iphones or Treo's. A lot smaller. Just don't start twittering or something.
 
I personally agree with Yvonne, in that it may be a distraction. I know it would be for me. Also, as Jonathan pointed out, your minister has spent time preparing to give that sermon. I too, take notes to study, however, a notebook is much less likely to cause one's focus to be pulled away from the message being delivered...In my humble opinion.
Although the Bible may not give direct instruction on "how" to take notes, we should be considerate to others.
 
My only concern about laptops in Church would be the effect on fellow worshipers. So sitting in the back might be a good idea to avoid distracting others (of course, for a Presbyterian, sitting in the back is no change at all . . .)
 
Personally, I think its highly inappropriate to bring a laptop/notebook to service. We are there to worship the Lord first and foremost, and I don't see how anyone can give God their full and undivided attention if they are busy looking up things on a notebook.

I pull out a Bible and look things up during the Sermon. In theory, at least, doing it electronically isn't any different. And taking notes electronically isn't any different than writing in the margins or in a notebook.

And I would imagine that it would be a distraction to other people as well.

Initially, it could be as a novelty, but folks would get used to it. I've seen them used in SS classes, but not yet in the main service. But I won't be surprised first time I see one.

Friend, don't be so sure about that. I don't know what your church looks like, but ours has a subdued and austere look. If that can describe yours, then there will definitely be a problem and people will not get used to it. It's out of place in worship as its novelty and flashiness will distract.

This may not describe you, but there are many things that can distract:
-Because it IS different, people will look
-Power meter and audible alarm
-Clacking of keys
-Temptation to use wireless internet, or do other things besides typing notes (even if it "only take a second")

If a Christian wishes to take notes and something like a handicap is an impediment to pen and paper notetaking, then a laptop may be a viable alternative. However, that person should perhaps sit in a location where it would do the least amount of distracting.
 
Personally, I think its highly inappropriate to bring a laptop/notebook to service. We are there to worship the Lord first and foremost, and I don't see how anyone can give God their full and undivided attention if they are busy looking up things on a notebook.

I pull out a Bible and look things up during the Sermon. In theory, at least, doing it electronically isn't any different. And taking notes electronically isn't any different than writing in the margins or in a notebook.

And I would imagine that it would be a distraction to other people as well.

Initially, it could be as a novelty, but folks would get used to it. I've seen them used in SS classes, but not yet in the main service. But I won't be surprised first time I see one.

Friend, don't be so sure about that. I don't know what your church looks like, but ours has a subdued and austere look. If that can describe yours, then there will definitely be a problem and people will not get used to it. It's out of place in worship as its novelty and flashiness will distract.

This may not describe you, but there are many things that can distract:
-Because it IS different, people will look
-Power meter and audible alarm
-Clacking of keys
-Temptation to use wireless internet, or do other things besides typing notes (even if it "only take a second")

If a Christian wishes to take notes and something like a handicap is an impediment to pen and paper notetaking, then a laptop may be a viable alternative. However, that person should perhaps sit in a location where it would do the least amount of distracting.

To put forward another view, why shouldn't those who are easily distracted by the laptops attempt, through greater self control, to accommodate those who may be better able to benefit from the sermon by being able to take better and fuller notes with a laptop?

Also, the preference for a particular atmosphere in church does not appear to be a good argument against laptops used for note taking purposes.
 
To put forward another view, why shouldn't those who are easily distracted by the laptops attempt, through greater self control, to accommodate those who may be better able to benefit from the sermon by being able to take better and fuller notes with a laptop?

Also, the preference for a particular atmosphere in church does not appear to be a good argument against laptops used for note taking purposes.

Does it not? What is the purpose of Sunday service? And what are conditions that would enhance the receptivity of preaching and understanding?

I don't think the onus is on the rest of the congregation to stop distracting themselves when a distracting element is placed in front of them. A laptop is typically out of place in a pew, has a bright screen, makes clicks and possibly beeps (if the user is not careful). I'm not sure if it was the original poster's intention to look up the Hebrew/Greek during the sermon, but there is that temptation when we have all these resources on a laptop vs. using pen and paper.
 
Does it not? What is the purpose of Sunday service? And what are conditions that would enhance the receptivity of preaching and understanding?

I don't think the onus is on the rest of the congregation to stop distracting themselves when a distracting element is placed in front of them. A laptop is typically out of place in a pew, has a bright screen, makes clicks and possibly beeps (if the user is not careful). I'm not sure if it was the original poster's intention to look up the Hebrew/Greek during the sermon, but there is that temptation when we have all these resources on a laptop vs. using pen and paper.

Surely allowing a listener to record down adequately the contents of the sermon would promote the reception of the preaching?

What makes a laptop a distracting element? The fact that it looks out of place in a pew is a matter of subjective preferrence which, for now, I would think should be subordinate to the practical function of note taking for a hearer.

If the church meeting place is well lit, the brightness of the screen should not really be a great distraction, nor do I think the sound of keys, while audible, is really much louder than the sound of writing or rustling paper.
 
Does it not? What is the purpose of Sunday service? And what are conditions that would enhance the receptivity of preaching and understanding?

I don't think the onus is on the rest of the congregation to stop distracting themselves when a distracting element is placed in front of them. A laptop is typically out of place in a pew, has a bright screen, makes clicks and possibly beeps (if the user is not careful). I'm not sure if it was the original poster's intention to look up the Hebrew/Greek during the sermon, but there is that temptation when we have all these resources on a laptop vs. using pen and paper.

Please edit your post to correct the attributions.

-----Added 8/24/2009 at 12:34:49 EST-----

Personally, I think its highly inappropriate to bring a laptop/notebook to service. We are there to worship the Lord first and foremost, and I don't see how anyone can give God their full and undivided attention if they are busy looking up things on a notebook.

I pull out a Bible and look things up during the Sermon. In theory, at least, doing it electronically isn't any different. And taking notes electronically isn't any different than writing in the margins or in a notebook.

And I would imagine that it would be a distraction to other people as well.

Initially, it could be as a novelty, but folks would get used to it. I've seen them used in SS classes, but not yet in the main service. But I won't be surprised first time I see one.

Friend, don't be so sure about that. I don't know what your church looks like, but ours has a subdued and austere look. If that can describe yours, then there will definitely be a problem and people will not get used to it. It's out of place in worship as its novelty and flashiness will distract.

This may not describe you, but there are many things that can distract:
-Because it IS different, people will look
-Power meter and audible alarm
-Clacking of keys
-Temptation to use wireless internet, or do other things besides typing notes (even if it "only take a second")

If a Christian wishes to take notes and something like a handicap is an impediment to pen and paper notetaking, then a laptop may be a viable alternative. However, that person should perhaps sit in a location where it would do the least amount of distracting.

I didn't think of it for my earlier post, but there are about 3 laptops used in the area at the back of the church where they control the sound. One controls the cameras; I'm not sure what the others are used for. So laptops in the pews in that area shouldn't be a problem. The balcony would be another area where they wouldn't be a problem.

Speaking of distractions, the sign language interpreter in the front was a distraction when it started, but folks soon adapted to it.
 
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Speaking of distractions, the sign language interpreter in the front was a distraction when it started, but folks soon adapted to it.

The difference is that a sign language interpreter may be necessary for someone that is hearing impaired to actually receive a sermon. However, a laptop is not a necessary tool for anyone to hear and receive a sermon.

For hundreds of years men have listened to sermons without the aid of laptops or any other recording device. In fact, it is argued that people paid far better attention during services in prior times than the typical churchgoer today! Our attention span is so short, especially within the U.S. Personally, I find that there is no longer any reverence during worship anymore! People eat, drink, doodle on papers, text on their cells, doze off, carry on conversations.......anything as long as "their consciences don't bind them" and its okay! Not only are these things disrespectful to those around them, and the Pastor who is giving the sermon....but mostly to God Himself!

And it should also be noted, that this discussion is not about taking notes, but if you look at the OP you will see its actually about looking up things on a notebook during a service! I don't find it necessary to understanding or even receiving the message of a sermon. I think its great if we have questions, or if a sermon prompts more thoughts.....but it is best to study those things on our own time. God is more than deserving of our undivided attention when we gather to worship HIM! HE deserves our complete reverence and awe!
 
I agree with Yvonne. I am skeptical about taking notes at all. Better to make focus on making the notes on your heart.
 
WCF. The Directory of Public Worship.
Of the assembling of the congregation and their behaviour in the Publick worship of God.
Paragraph 5: The public worship being begun, the people are wholly to attend upon it, forebearing to read anything, except what the minister is reading or citing....and so on.

If the laptop or any device were being used to reference anything other than what the minister is reading or citing, then it seems WCF holders shouldn't use them. Even going off on other passages of scriputre is a distraction to what is being preached. I'd find it very distracting.
 
I can see your point in needing to dig deeper into what your pastor is saying. Doesn't your church record your pastor's sermons? You could always go back and listen to them and do your research that that time. I agree with Yvonne. Worship service isn't a theological class room. You're there to worship.
 
While I wholeheartedly applaud comprehensive personal study of the Holy Scriptures, I would strongly caution against the use of laptops in the public worship of God. God has commanded the use of oratory to proclaim the Truth of the Gospel. I do not believe the worship service is the time to conduct research on the same text from which the pastor is preaching. It is one thing to make a quick note of the headings, or a particularly gripping point that deserves future meditation. But it is another thing to bring in external information to supplement what the preacher is bringing to his flock.

I don't think the the sermon is the time for taking notes in the same way that one might do in a lecture or class. If one feels the need an electronic aid to help take notes during the sermon, then he is almost certainly incorrectly approaching the sermon.

Just as it would be a poor gesture to look up the etymology of a word used when your spouse was telling you how much they loved you, it is an equally poor gesture to do a word or definition search while God's word is being preached. If the preacher thinks it important that the congregation be given such information during the sermon, he will do so.

I would find it most distracting and irreverent to have someone beside me clack away on a laptop during the sermon.

Eoghan, that you are someone who is interested in this kind of in-depth bible study means that you and I would probably be instant friends if we both lived in Scotland. But I hope you would re-consider the use of electronics during the corporate worship of God's people. Brother, I really think that overall, you would be inhibiting your ability to attend to the preached Word.
 
If one feels the need an electronic aid to help take notes during the sermon, then he is almost certainly incorrectly approaching the sermon.

Tim,

Could you explain further why this is so?

I am not talking about conducting academic type research during a sermon, but some hearers would benefit from being able to note down the references or even phrases used by the pastor during the sermon. Not everyone will always be able to recall well what the pastor has said after the sermon, nor will all the details and beneficial points of a sermon always be immediately apparently simply from returning to the main reference text.

I am not sure why it would not be more beneficial for someone to be able to take adequate notes (as that person sees fit) to be able to review later, rather than to simply listen to the sermon (even if it is slightly more attentively) but not be able to recall everything later - which may simply be a result of imperfect human memory and not any lack of reverence for the preaching.

I know from personal experience both academic and in church that trying to keep up with a speaker using pen and paper can be trying and may not always be possible. Surely I am not the only one in that category... ?


I would find it most distracting and irreverent to have someone beside me clack away on a laptop during the sermon.

I can understand why someone might consider it distracting (although as explained above I am not sure I agree), but why irreverent? What is irreverent about wanting to record what is being preached for review and application later? Isn't the application of the preaching to the believers life after the service more important than the experience of listening to the sermon during the service? If taking notes with a laptop or any other instrument facilitates this, it seems it would support the aim of preaching better than to listen but not be able to remember everything which was preached.

Where am I looking at this wrongly?
 
As one who has used a laptop for a few years in the pew; here are my observations:

1.) I sit in the back; either the back row or next if I can get it, that way nobody is distracted by my screen.

2.) I keep the screen brightness as low as i can while still seeing it clearly.

3.) I mute all noise making things before I leave for church.


the fact is; I take my laptop/bible just about everywhere I go, and so to church also.

I like to follow along when passages are being read, just like anyone who brings a bible.

I don't go off on a ton of tangents either; but I do click a word definition here and there.

I see this as no different than someone bringing a bible to church, the medium of delivery is different; but the content is the same.
 
As one who has used a laptop for a few years in the pew; here are my observations:

1.) I sit in the back; either the back row or next if I can get it, that way nobody is distracted by my screen.

2.) I keep the screen brightness as low as i can while still seeing it clearly.

3.) I mute all noise making things before I leave for church.


the fact is; I take my laptop/bible just about everywhere I go, and so to church also.

I like to follow along when passages are being read, just like anyone who brings a bible.

I don't go off on a ton of tangents either; but I do click a word definition here and there.

I see this as no different than someone bringing a bible to church, the medium of delivery is different; but the content is the same.

If you are using it only as an electronic Bible, that's one thing. But I think he's looking up the Hebrew/Greek word to words used in the sermon... basically doing research from what I can tell.
 
Your minister has spent hours in prayerful consideration of the message to be delivered. He has also utilized many of the resources that you would want to access during worship. My advice is to focus on hearing the word of God and save your private library for personal study time.


I think my problem is that the preaching is NOT expositional. There is no one set passage that is expounded it is thematic - that is what the preacher wants to say with a few supporting verses which are often quoted without being referenced. A little like our PowerPoint hymns which have had the hymn numbers removed (not entered).

It was not that long ago said Deacon was expounding the lyrics of the pole dancing Mylie Cyrus as his "text". Recognising the lyrics I could give the source but for the majority of the congregation over 16 it could have been a Keith Green Hymn? (I have a 10 year old daughter)

I am sorry to draw attention to your presuppositions TheocraticMonarchist but I am not sitting under the expositional preaching of an ordained minister. Rather a pastorless flock that was doing the Lobo Lobo (or at least part of it) during the kids choruses!

Yes I know we deserve better but the choice is attending a poor example of a reformed church or not attending church. Given that choice my concern is to set an example to my children of public worship and teaching them at home.
 
If you are using it only as an electronic Bible, that's one thing. But I think he's looking up the Hebrew/Greek word to words used in the sermon... basically doing research from what I can tell.

Well, like I said...I do look up words also.


BUT HAVING SAID THAT....

Since I've been in a Presbyterian church with solid, expositional style preaching, I've been less inclined to do this...I'm MUCH MORE blessed by the sermons now and frankly, I think that I'm finding that just listening might be better for me.

So i guess i'm a little bit on the fence on this one. :think:
 
If you are using it only as an electronic Bible, that's one thing. But I think he's looking up the Hebrew/Greek word to words used in the sermon... basically doing research from what I can tell.

When the substance of the sermon hinges on particular words I am keen to verify the truth of what is being said. I know that the mode of most is to be a passive learner but that is not me. I am a creationist and used to questioning the presuppositions as well as the "evidence". When I am listening to a close exposition of a text, passage or book of scripture by attention is primarily on what is said. This however is the exception I cannot recall the last time I heard straight exposition. Most "modern" preaching is a synthesis of texts. In this Sunday's case the concept of four "porticos". Starting with the text of John 5:1-14 the deacon went on to explain that the pool of Bethesda colonnades led into the temple?
 
When the substance of the sermon hinges on particular words I am keen to verify the truth of what is being said. I know that the mode of most is to be a passive learner but that is not me. I am a creationist and used to questioning the presuppositions as well as the "evidence". When I am listening to a close exposition of a text, passage or book of scripture by attention is primarily on what is said. This however is the exception I cannot recall the last time I heard straight exposition. Most "modern" preaching is a synthesis of texts. In this Sunday's case the concept of four "porticos". Starting with the text of John 5:1-14 the deacon went on to explain that the pool of Bethesda colonnades led into the temple?

So does you pastor record his sermons so that you can be the berean you want to be but outside of worship?
 
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