Michael Horton @ Saddleback

[SolaSaint]

I don't know if this subject has been raised yet, but does anyone know what this global conversation tour that Dr. Horton is doing is all about? I see he's heading for Rick Warrens church this week to speak. It just seemed like an odd pairing; Warren and Horton.

 

[Ivan]

And here we go again.

 

[raekwon]

And here we go again.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[kvanlaan]

Funny, but I was one to beat up on Piper for Warren's attendance at Piper's conference. Now I just caught myself thinking "wow, the congregation at Saddleback will actually hear the unadulterated gospel!"

Throw what you have. Me and my hypocrisy are ready.

 

[Theoretical]

Funny, but I was one to beat up on Piper for Warren's attendance at Piper's conference. Now I just caught myself thinking "wow, the congregation at Saddleback will actually hear the unadulterated gospel!"

Throw what you have. Me and my hypocrisy are ready.

I'm totally on board with Horton preaching there. Warren at a Reformed Church, no thank you.

A more doctrinally conservative and confessional man preaching in a less confessional, questionable, or even bad church is a great opportunity as long as he's not barred from preaching the Gospel. Not that it'd ever happen, I'd be ecstatic if a guy like Horton were invited to my old mainline church to preach.

 

[kvanlaan]

A more doctrinally conservative and confessional man preaching in a less confessional, questionable, or even bad church is a great opportunity as long as he's not barred from preaching the Gospel. Not that it'd ever happen, I'd be ecstatic if a guy like Horton were invited to my old mainline church to preach.

Yep, I see it as night and day difference (but I know not all will!)

 

[Willem van Oranje]

Funny, but I was one to beat up on Piper for Warren's attendance at Piper's conference. Now I just caught myself thinking "wow, the congregation at Saddleback will actually hear the unadulterated gospel!"

Throw what you have. Me and my hypocrisy are ready.

I'm totally on board with Horton preaching there. Warren at a Reformed Church, no thank you.

A more doctrinally conservative and confessional man preaching in a less confessional, questionable, or even bad church is a great opportunity as long as he's not barred from preaching the Gospel. Not that it'd ever happen, I'd be ecstatic if a guy like Horton were invited to my old mainline church to preach.

Bar or no-bar, you figure he could get a few minutes in at least before they bring out the hook.

This is great. Reminds me of what David F. Wells told me at lunch a couple weeks ago, that he is being invited to preach at Mark Driscoll's church. He said there is a movement among what he has called the "church-marketers," (among some of them, that is) toward Reformed Theology. Bill Hybels and his ilk are seeing the error of their ways, and some of them are looking for solid meat to correct course. Praise God for what he is doing!

 

[Whitefield]

I don't see the problem here.

 

[SolaSaint]

I hope you don't think I feel this is a problem, I think it is great that Horton has the pulpit at such a liberal church. I was just wondering at what this global conversation was all about. Too many in here jump to conclusions, please don't read into a post what isn't there. Thanks!

 

[Scott1]

If Mr. Horton has an unfettered ability to present some aspect of reformed theology to the doctrinally starved communion, it can be a good thing.

God will likely have receptive people there calling out from the morass of shallowness characteristic of this communion.

Now, if somehow this becomes an ecumenical acceptance of Arminian influenced, dispensational, lack of confession, low view of church and sacraments, theology and practice, then not.

 

[Whitefield]

If Mr. Horton has an unfettered ability to present some aspect of reformed theology to the doctrinally starved communion, it can be a good thing.

God will likely have receptive people there calling out from the morass of shallowness characteristic of this communion.

Now, if somehow this becomes an ecumenical acceptance of Arminian influenced, dispensational, lack of confession, low view of church and sacraments, theology and practice, then not.

Given my read of Horton, I doubt he will kowtow to Arminianism at Saddleback. Maybe some at Saddleback will read some of Horton's writings.

 

[christiana]

And here we go again.

Exactly, Piper and Driscoll, Horton and Warren! Disappointing!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I don't know if this subject has been raised yet, but does anyone know what this global conversation tour that Dr. Horton is doing is all about? I see he's heading for Rick Warrens church this week to speak. It just seemed like an odd pairing; Warren and Horton.

Do you have a link announcing this?

 

[Jared]

Funny, but I was one to beat up on Piper for Warren's attendance at Piper's conference. Now I just caught myself thinking "wow, the congregation at Saddleback will actually hear the unadulterated gospel!"

Throw what you have. Me and my hypocrisy are ready.

I'm totally on board with Horton preaching there. Warren at a Reformed Church, no thank you.

A more doctrinally conservative and confessional man preaching in a less confessional, questionable, or even bad church is a great opportunity as long as he's not barred from preaching the Gospel. Not that it'd ever happen, I'd be ecstatic if a guy like Horton were invited to my old mainline church to preach.

What if someone like Piper, Horton, Keller, anyone like that was preaching at Joel Osteen's church? Would you have a problem with that?

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

Also, it seems to me that maybe Rick Warren could actually be opening up a bit to more truth. Speaking at Piper's conference and now having Horton speak at his church, it seems that he is becoming quite friendly toward the reformed crowd.

 

[Sgt Grit]

As long as they could preach the Gospel I don't think anyone should have a problem with it. The only problem would be if it were reversed.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Jared,

I don't think Rick Warren has ever been unfriendly to the Reformed. I read him state that he subscribes to Modern Reformation a few years ago.

I think he is friendly to many camps.

It's sort of the modern phenomena to be friendly and open to many differing ideas and then integrating them all into your own. In other words having Mike speak at his Church does not imply that he's embracing Reformed soteriology and ecclesiology at the exclusion of all other views.

 

[Jared]

There was a rumor a while back that Rick Warren sent an email to the Founders ministry and told them that he was reformed. I don't know anything about the veracity of that, but I could see him being an Amyraldian. He told Piper that limited atonement was the only part of the TULIP that he had a problem with.

 

[DMcFadden]

In some circles it is chic to be soteriologically Calvinist (leaning). I would never confuse that with being confessional, however. Nor should it be expected to bring a change in philosophy of ministry. This is America! Burger King Theology rules. If you don't want the theological dish like everyone else, mix and match, and "have it your way."

 

[dannyhyde]

This is a part of the Laussane Movement for Global Evangelization, begun in 1974.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

In some circles it is chic to be soteriologically Calvinist (leaning). I would never confuse that with being confessional, however. Nor should it be expected to bring a change in philosophy of ministry. This is America! Burger King Theology rules. If you don't want the theological dish like everyone else, mix and match, and "have it your way."

But when the Burger King crowd gets tired of junk food, and wants something solid, where else would they have to turn in this day and age, but to the Reformed steakhouse? Let's pray that this becomes an abiding trend of evanjellycals being attracted to the Reformation, even once they've tried everything else and nearly starved themselves to death.

 

[SolaSaint]

I read this on the Whitehorse Inn website for those who want a link.

 

[Theoretical]

What if someone like Piper, Horton, Keller, anyone like that was preaching at Joel Osteen's church? Would you have a problem with that?

It'd be one of the greatest opportunities to teach the Gospel clearly and plainly from a single pulpit in one sitting in history. Last I heard something like 7 million people listen to or watch Osteen preach each Sunday. If even half that number tuned into the guest, that's a lot of seed-sowing.

Caveat, as long as the pastor was given the freedom to preach and did not have to compromise his message for the forum or embrace one like Osteen as his brother in Christ. Horton's very irenic and passionate about the Gospel in a way that may open a lot of eyes. We should pray that this happen.

 

[Jared]

What if someone like Piper, Horton, Keller, anyone like that was preaching at Joel Osteen's church? Would you have a problem with that?

It'd be one of the greatest opportunities to teach the Gospel clearly and plainly from a single pulpit in one sitting in history. Last I heard something like 7 million people listen to or watch Osteen preach each Sunday. If even half that number tuned into the guest, that's a lot of seed-sowing.

Caveat, as long as the pastor was given the freedom to preach and did not have to compromise his message for the forum or embrace one like Osteen as his brother in Christ. Horton's very irenic and passionate about the Gospel in a way that may open a lot of eyes. We should pray that this happen.

That reminds me of when Mark Driscoll was on Robert Schuller's program, "The Hour Of Power". His message was really solid. He was talking about the historical Jesus. Did anyone else get to see that?

 

[Jack K]

What if someone like Piper, Horton, Keller, anyone like that was preaching at Joel Osteen's church? Would you have a problem with that?

In fact, I remember when Keller was invited to give a mini-sermon at the inter-faith dedication of the Ground Zero memorial. He might have turned it down, not wanting to be lumped in with liberals, Catholics, Muslims and Jews. But instead he accepted the stage that was handed to him and preached one of the best sermons I've ever heard from him, probably to his biggest audience.

Did Paul turn down the offer to speak at Mars Hill because he was standing in the shadow of pagan temples and might be seen as capitulating to Athenian sensibilities? No, he took the opportunity given him and proclaimed the gospel.

 

[AThornquist]

The preachers and teachers we see in the New Testament never preached in a congregation of pagans or spiritually weak churches.

Seriously, what's the issue here? If Horton is going to preach the truth, this is a blessed opportunity! The reason it is stupid for Warren to preach at a Desiring God conference is because he does not have a history of preaching the truth. The two circumstances are very different.

 

[Wannabee]

The preachers and teachers we see in the New Testament never preached in a congregation of pagans or spiritually weak churches.

That'll preach. Run with it.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

The preachers and teachers we see in the New Testament never preached in a congregation of pagans or spiritually weak churches.

I hope that was sarcasm and not serious.

 

[Ivan]

The preachers and teachers we see in the New Testament never preached in a congregation of pagans or spiritually weak churches.

I hope that was sarcasm and not serious.

Pagans notwithstanding, there is the church in Corinth

 

[AThornquist]

The preachers and teachers we see in the New Testament never preached in a congregation of pagans or spiritually weak churches.

I hope that was sarcasm and not serious.

I would never, ever be sarcastic.

Really now - I was specifically thinking of Paul preaching to pagan Greeks and unbelieving Jews (if one cares to be so strong in his or her judgment against Saddleback), or in this case the church at Corinth (if one cares to concur that Saddleback is a church that is weak and struggling on a spiritual level, which in a lot of ways is the result of the leadership).

 

[JonathanHunt]

I would preach anywhere that would have me. They mostly would probably never have me again. But I'd preach nonetheless. I see nothing wrong with what Horton is doing. I take a different view of the Piper/Warren thing. The two do not compare. Would I preach the gospel in the Vatican? Yes. Would I let the Pope in my pulpit? No.