Are babies adults in Heaven?

[puritangirl]

Grieving the loss of my brother and sister-in-law's 8 week old "in utero" baby...I am thankful we can peacefully assume he/she is in Heaven, but it did make me wonder...are there any reasons to believe this "embryo" would be a fully developed human in Heaven? I am comforting myself with this thought, but I didn't know if there are any Scripture references to support it, or if the Puritans wrote about it at all, considering they lost so many infants themselves. It seems like an impossibilty for miscarried babies to remain embryos for eternity - but then, what about babies that die? Three year olds? Are we all one age in Heaven? Am I prying into the secret things of God? Just didn't know what was written about it, if anything. Thanks. (And I really don't know if this is the right forum for this question. It seems somewhat theological in nature.)

 

[rookie]

From what I have heard preached, we are wrong to assume that babies go to heaven based on their sin accountability. In other words "how can an innocent baby go to hell". Since many verses including Psalm 51:5 - in sin did my mother conceive me, and many more verses that Paul brings out, that we deserve hell from the womb.

That being said, there were a few verses that lead to the thought that babies are saved, not because of their innocence, but due to the mercies and grace of God. Remember when David fathered a child in adultery, and the child was sick, David was depressed and praying while the child was dying. Once the child finally died, David exclaimed that he was going to where the child was.

So I too, believe that babies and young children go to heaven, but not based on age of accountability, but due to God's mercy (otherwise, none of us would make it).

Whether they are fully grown or not when they get there, I don't know of any scripture that opens up on this...

Waiting for more posts to learn on this as well.

 

[Bethel]

I agree that not all babies (nor all children, nor all adults) are elect. We are all conceived with an inherent sin nature; not one is righteous, no not one.

From the Westminster Confession, Chapter 10-Of Effectual Calling, Paragraph 3:

III. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.

I have no idea what we will look like in heaven regardless of our age.

 

[sevenzedek]

It seems difficult to imagine that infants and fetuses in heaven would not be able to intelligently fulfill their role as a kingdom of priests to our God for lack of physical and mental immaturity. For this reason I submit that all infants and fetuses will be physically mature.

As far as the question of age goes, it seems very plausible that we may all appear to be the same age in heaven because it is sin's curse that has made us to have wrinkles. In one sense, we will be different ages because of our different beginnings on earth. In another sense, however, we may appear to be the same age in heaven because we will all be glorified at the same time.

There are many subtle aspects in this line of reasoning I have made that I have not considered. It goes without saying that there is much that we cannot know about this.

I don't believe that asking such questions should be considered prying into the secret things of God. There is a good way and bad way of questioning God. An example of a bad way would be to question God's goodness. And an example of a good way would be to question his design. How is one to worship God with all their mind if they cannot ask hard questions?

 

[puritangirl]

Thank you so much, Jon, for answering my question. I think you make good points. It's something to meditate on, and I'm sure there are meditations on it by the Puritans, I just haven't needed to study it yet. I am sure they have written many comforting works regarding covenant children who pass on, considering they suffered through this so frequently. I've heard that the Puritans meditated on heaven a little each day. I'm thankful for opportunities like this that cause me to do that too.

 

[KMK]

Christian parents have no reason to doubt their children dying in infancy won't be with them in heaven.

The Canons of Dort

Article 17: The Salvation of the Infants of Believers

Since we must make judgments about God's will from his Word, which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature but by virtue of the gracious covenant in which they together with their parents are included, godly parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of their children whom God calls out of this life in infancy.

Since the resurrection of Jesus was the firstfruits of the harvest, perhaps all of us will be resurrected into a 33 year old body??

 

[SRoper]

Augustine suggested we would all be around 30.

I'll have to find that quote--it works really well on 30th birthday cards.

 

[Poimen]

We can only assume that Adam and Eve were made (virtually instantly) with mature, adult bodies in Paradise. I would infer from that vantage point that the new heavens and earth would be populated with persons with who also had mature, adult bodies.

 

[JimmyH]

1John: 3.2, Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

My condolences for your sister's loss.

 

[Andres]

Am I prying into the secret things of God?

This is probably going to be our best answer since the Scriptures seem to be silent on what "age" we will be in our resurrected bodies. I have wondered about this question before myself. The only thing I can add to the conversation is that Christ seemed to appear in his resurrected body as the age he was when he died. I say this because several people recognized him.

 

[Alan D. Strange]

I agree that not all babies (nor all children, nor all adults) are elect. We are all conceived with an inherent sin nature; not one is righteous, no not one.

No one here has suggested that "not all babies...are elect" since there is no possible way to know this. We are not able, particularly from the statement in WCF 10.3 (about "elect infants dying in infancy") to draw the conclusion either that "all infants who die in infancy are elect," or "some infants who die in infancy are not elect." The statement is simply telling us that the elect are saved, whether as an infant "incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word" or "all other elect persons" (someone mentally disabled, e.g.), who are likewise incapable of being outwardly called.

It is the case that the Princetonians went in the direction of arguing that all who died in infancy were presumed elect. I'm not sure that there's the clearest warrant for that in the positive, but there is certainly no reason to assume the opposite--that some clearly go to hell. We have no biblical evidence that any dying in infancy go to hell. Their being conceived and born in sin is no clue to that, since we all are and it's all of His grace (As Ray noted), for infants or adults, the difference being that adults are ordinarily capable of being outwardly called and thus we look for faith and repentance that we cannot see clearly in an infant or other person not able to manifest such.

What I can most clearly and comfortably rest in is that great declaration of the Synod of Dort (1.17) that says that Christian parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of those that God calls out of this life in infancy. Bottom line: if I am speaking to unbelievers, I would never suggest that their child "may have" gone to hell. Rather, I would ask them if they are ready to meet Him whom their child has met and offer them comfort with respect to their child (you can rest him or her in the hands of the Lord and you need to be resting in Christ alone). To Christian parents: You can rest assured that your child is safe in His arms.

In fact, I tell anyone worrying about departed relatives ("I'm not sure that he knew the Lord;" or flatly, "She was not a Christian"): we entrust all those who die to Him who does all things well. "If they were His," I say, "they're with Him, whether you saw them testify to faith in Him or not." We rest in Him, knowing that He does all things well.

Now to the OP: We will be just what we need to be there. It makes no more sense that we would be eternally an embryo or infant than that we would be perpetually aged. So we can't say more than that but we know that there we will lack no joys or blessings that we have here; whatever is different there than here (e.g., neither marrying nor giving in marriage), we will lack nothing there than we enjoy here (every joy of marriage here will be perfected and transcended there).

Peace,
Alan

 

[J. Dean]

Am I prying into the secret things of God?

This is probably going to be our best answer since the Scriptures seem to be silent on what "age" we will be in our resurrected bodies. I have wondered about this question before myself. The only thing I can add to the conversation is that Christ seemed to appear in his resurrected body as the age he was when he died. I say this because several people recognized him.

Tend to agree.

Although I'm still convinced that Moses will look like Charlton Heston

 

[Romans922]

Grieving the loss of my brother and sister-in-law's 8 week old "in utero" baby...I am thankful we can peacefully assume he/she is in Heaven, but it did make me wonder...are there any reasons to believe this "embryo" would be a fully developed human in Heaven? I am comforting myself with this thought, but I didn't know if there are any Scripture references to support it, or if the Puritans wrote about it at all, considering they lost so many infants themselves. It seems like an impossibilty for miscarried babies to remain embryos for eternity - but then, what about babies that die? Three year olds? Are we all one age in Heaven? Am I prying into the secret things of God? Just didn't know what was written about it, if anything. Thanks. (And I really don't know if this is the right forum for this question. It seems somewhat theological in nature.)

Christine,

Hello, you are a member at a church that is in my presbytery.

Puritan-speaking, we have the Westminster Confession of where they addressed the issue of whether they are saved or not. There is no age of accountability in Scripture (not that you suggested that), but like Ray said in post #2 we are depending on God's mercy and perhaps his greater mercy to the infants because of their elect parents. But the Westminster Confession states, "Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word."

It seems like they address not only infants but such that have mental disabilities and such like that. But they only stated what God's Word already said on the subject. All of those who are elect are regenerated. In this case, all those who are elect infants are regenerated.

As to those elect, the one's who will be welcomed into the new heavens and new earth to be with Jesus, Scripture doesn't say what our bodies will be like except basically 'new glorified bodies'.

Of course all of us have wondered, will the man who died at 91 look the way he did at death or when he was 30? Scripture doesn't say, but our bodies won't be frail, but I believe strong in Christ.

 

[Jack K]

The only thing I can add to the conversation is that Christ seemed to appear in his resurrected body as the age he was when he died. I say this because several people recognized him.

Yet, some whom we'd expect to recognize the resurrected Christ didn't recognize him right away. It took hearing him speak or seeing him break the bread. So this suggests the possiblity of bodies that share some similarilty to our earthly bodies but are, in ways, quite different.

 

[Andres]

The only thing I can add to the conversation is that Christ seemed to appear in his resurrected body as the age he was when he died. I say this because several people recognized him.

Yet, some whom we'd expect to recognize the resurrected Christ didn't recognize him right away. It took hearing him speak or seeing him break the bread. So this suggests the possiblity of bodies that share some similarilty to our earthly bodies but are, in ways, quite different.

Excellent point Jack. I guess it's back to the drawing board with my theory!

 

[OPC'n]

I didn't read the comments but I believe the soul doesn't have an age and when we get our new bodies they won't be anything like what we have now....

1Cor 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39 For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[e] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall[f] also bear the image of the man of heaven.

 

[hammondjones]

Augustine suggested we would all be around 30.

I'll have to find that quote--it works really well on 30th birthday cards.

For even the world’s wisest men have fixed the bloom of youth at about the age of thirty; and when this period has been passed, the man begins to decline towards the defective and duller period of old age.

City of God xxii, ch. 15

 

[jwithnell]

about the age of thirty; and when this period has been passed, the man begins to decline towards the defective and duller period of old age.

I just turned 50. I'm doomed

I agree that the scriptures don't really tell us. One thing I've wondered though, is that we have so much enjoyment with babies and children. It seems sad that there may be none around. On the other hand, eternity as a 9-month-old doesn't sound right either.

 

[sevenzedek]

The age of 30 may not be that far off since people in their early twenties are still maturing physically and mentally.

 

[Constantlyreforming]

Jesus in his resurrected body was unrecognizable until He chose to reveal it to them. Interesting.

I'd line up that it will be an adult body, but will not (and definitely hopefully for me) have any effects of the fall which definitely taint my appearance....

 

[Reformed Irish Man]

Genesis 18:22-26
22 So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 Then Abraham drew near and said, “Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” 26 And the Lord said, “If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

This passage is particularly comforting for me. We cannot know for definite where the unborn or child will be destined, however, one truth we can confess with zeal: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?"

 

[Peairtach]

Ken

Since the resurrection of Jesus was the firstfruits of the harvest, perhaps all of us will be resurrected into a 33 year old body??

Jesus may have been 38, if he was born in 5 BC and died in AD 33.

The question of babies being adults in the Heavenly Kingdom - including the New Heavens and New Earth - is one of these impossible questions, as far as I know, like why there are sexes in heaven, if there is no marriage.

These details have not been revealed to us but if God can create this world, He can recreate a better one.

Jean

One thing I've wondered though, is that we have so much enjoyment with babies and children. It seems sad that there may be none around.

People get enjoyment from marriage, and marriage is good. It may seem sad to some people that there will be no marriage in the Heavenly Eschatalogical Kingdom, but there isn't.

 

[Mushroom]

The measure of difference between a child in his mother's womb and the most learned man on earth is minuscule before the Lord of creation. In whatever way we will "be like Him" will require a humanly inconceivable improvement and expansion of our understanding and 'maturity', and it will happen in "the twinkling of an eye". Since those promises apply to all the elect, the distinctions we make here between pauper and prince, newborn and ninety-year-old, or grade-school dropout and genius it seems to me will be akin to the difference in size between grains of sand as they appear to our eyes now. The eldest among us are not much more than babes before the Ancient of Days.

I don't think we need to worry that we'll be too very much like what we are in this world. It'll be unimaginably better!

 

[OPC'n]

hahahahahaha, Josh, quit talking about me

 

[Mushroom]

Yes, 'they are'....

 

[py3ak]

The measure of difference between a child in his mother's womb and the most learned man on earth is minuscule before the Lord of creation. In whatever way we will "be like Him" will require a humanly inconceivable improvement and expansion of our understanding and 'maturity', and it will happen in "the twinkling of an eye". Since those promises apply to all the elect, the distinctions we make here between pauper and prince, newborn and ninety-year-old, or grade-school dropout and genius it seems to me will be akin to the difference in size between grains of sand as they appear to our eyes now. The eldest among us are not much more than babes before the Ancient of Days.

I don't think we need to worry that we'll be too very much like what we are in this world. It'll be unimaginably better!

That was excellent, Brad! A great way to put things in perspective. One thing that can be said about the resurrection body, is that as a spiritual body, it will be a perfectly adequate vessel for its spirit. This means there will be variation, because we retain our individuality; but it also means there will be individual perfection in each body, because those spiritual bodies are joined to the spirits of just men made perfect.

 

[puritangirl]

1John: 3.2, Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

My condolences for your sister's loss.

Excellent verse! Thank you so much!

 

[NB3K]

Does the Scriptures teach at what "age" did God create Adam at? For we know Adam did not go from a babe, boy, adult, he was created as a man. ANd I do not believe there will be an "age" in the new creation. Age is a result of sin.

 

[puritangirl]

Cool! I'll try to find that quote too.

Augustine suggested we would all be around 30.

I'll have to find that quote--it works really well on 30th birthday cards.

 

[JennyG]

if I am speaking to unbelievers, I would never suggest that their child "may have" gone to hell. Rather, I would ask them if they are ready to meet Him whom their child has met and offer them comfort with respect to their child (you can rest him or her in the hands of the Lord and you need to be resting in Christ alone). To Christian parents: You can rest assured that your child is safe in His arms.

In fact, I tell anyone worrying about departed relatives ("I'm not sure that he knew the Lord;" or flatly, "She was not a Christian"): we entrust all those who die to Him who does all things well. "If they were His," I say, "they're with Him, whether you saw them testify to faith in Him or not." We rest in Him, knowing that He does all things well.

thank you for that, Alan. I've often puzzled over what could be right to say in such circumstances