My first theology conference

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Somerset

Puritan Board Junior
Just back from the Met Tab school of theology, on the work of the Holy Spirit. Had no idea what to expect - but what a blessing it was.

To save money I opted to sleep at the venue, the room and breakfast was as good as paying for the hostel - out of interest I will list the books I was able to buy with the money saved. I shared with 6 other people, 3 Korean students (who happened to be studying in Nottingham) and people from Manchester, Coventry and Norwich. The fellowship was amazing - we talked for hours about faith and theology. I think they welcomed having a presbyterian, EP person ( discussions with people you agree with are so short!). There was not one word of anger or rudeness between us.

The fellowship at meal times was also excellent. If all the speakers had cancelled, I would still have had a superb time.

As for the talks. I didn't attend those on "rap and hip hop" - if you don't approve of Charles Wesley, this is hardly going to be an issue! John Thackway, CofE I think, was very good on how the work of the Spirit should impact on our day to day life. Ted Williams should have been talking about the New Calvinists. As he has recently had heart surgery, someone else had to read his papers for him. This is usually bad news - a stilted presentation is to be expected, but not on this occasion. Those discussed were Mr Keller, Mr Piper, Mr Driscoll and Mr Mohler (spellings may be wrong), of these Keller and Driscoll were deemed to be the worst.

Joel Beeke was excellent - speaking on "cultivating holiness", "knowing the love of God", "living submissively" and "fighting unbelief". After his first talk, I felt rather cheated - going all that way just for a few minutes of a lecture. But it had been the full 45 minutes - if only my lecturers could have made time pass so quickly.

I am certainly going nest year - regardless of the topic.
 
I think Mr Mohler was seen as more of a fellow traveller than a card carrying member. Points made against him were: closeness to Billy Graham and the use of rap music on his radio programme. The section on Mr Mohler was by far the shortest of the four. I had never heard of him - so cannot make an independent comment.
 
Wait a minute... what is the criticism for using rap music outside of the church? Obviously in church, I can see the problem, but on a radio program??
 
Wait a minute... what is the criticism for using rap music outside of the church? Obviously in church, I can see the problem, but on a radio program??
My understanding was, and I don't want to put words into another's mouth, that rap music is inherently unchristian.
 
Wait a minute... what is the criticism for using rap music outside of the church? Obviously in church, I can see the problem, but on a radio program??
My understanding was, and I don't want to put words into another's mouth, that rap music is inherently unchristian.

Two things: First, so rap music isn't christian, but other genres are? Second, are we labeling "things" as Christian and non-Christian now? Example: If a shirt has a picture of the apostle Paul on it, does that make the shirt in and of itself Christian? The obvious answer is no.

It's quite interesting when people start labeling what is and is not "christian".
 
sorry, I don't feel happy going beyond giving an idea of what was said. Can I suggest the "New Calvinists" web site. if you wish to see the analysis.
 
Ken

John Thackway is Baptist from Holywell Evangelical Church. Glad you had a great time.
 
Phil - thank you for your correction.

Margaret - books were-
Brooks - Precious remedies
Watson - Doctrine of repentance
Sibbes - Bruised reed
Brooks - The secret key to heaven
Leder - Waiting for the land (story line of the Pentateuch)
Beeke - Overcoming the world
Watson - The Lords prayer
Watson - The ten commandments
Ryle - Practical religion
Beeke - Taking hold of God
Macke - Humility
Pink - Gleanings in Genesis
If I had been (not) sleeping on a rock hard floor, I would have the blessings of these books years after my aches had been forgotten.
 
Wait a minute... what is the criticism for using rap music outside of the church? Obviously in church, I can see the problem, but on a radio program??
My understanding was, and I don't want to put words into another's mouth, that rap music is inherently unchristian.

Two things: First, so rap music isn't christian, but other genres are? Second, are we labeling "things" as Christian and non-Christian now? Example: If a shirt has a picture of the apostle Paul on it, does that make the shirt in and of itself Christian? The obvious answer is no.

It's quite interesting when people start labeling what is and is not "christian".

Wouldn't this comment be merely speculation? Since, after all it has been stated that the lecture on the issue wasn't attended. It seems to me that it is foolish to make a judgment on what was taught if one wasn't at the lecture. I'm hoping the Metropolitan Tabernacle posts the lectures online, then we will be able to see what was actually taught apart from speculation.
 
Glad you enjoyed it, I have been down for it a few times, mostly whilst I was at seminary there and always found it beneficial.
 
Phil - thank you for your correction.

Margaret - books were-
Brooks - Precious remedies
Watson - Doctrine of repentance
Sibbes - Bruised reed
Brooks - The secret key to heaven
Leder - Waiting for the land (story line of the Pentateuch)
Beeke - Overcoming the world
Watson - The Lords prayer
Watson - The ten commandments
Ryle - Practical religion
Beeke - Taking hold of God
Macke - Humility
Pink - Gleanings in Genesis
If I had been (not) sleeping on a rock hard floor, I would have the blessings of these books years after my aches had been forgotten.

Tremendous! You got some mighty fine classics there! Enjoy!
 
I was also at the conference. It was a pity, Ken, that you felt that being EP meant that you could skip the 'Weighing Christian Rap and Hip-Hop' sessions. We can't just cut ourselves off from most of the Christian scene. Anyway, I'd recommend that you listen to the two papers when the School goes online, for free, in August.

It would have been good to meet you.

For the avoidance of any doubt and/or speculation, Pastor Chris Hand showed, in his two-part paper on 'Hip Hop' that the music in this case is not a neutral matter, and that no matter how 'good' the words, (and he acknowledged that they are in many cases very good, and extremely skillful) not only does Christian hip hop have no place in the worship of God, but that the entire genre should be avoided because of the violent, sexualised, greedy nature of the culture. Before everyone starts whinging and moaning about this, don't argue with me, I'm not here to defend a thesis, just to state the facts. Listen to the presentation in August if the subject interests you, otherwise, hold your peace. (Thanks in advance).

On the 'New Calvinist' paper, the main criticism was levelled at Keller and Driscoll, which I thought was fair, and largely the comments about Piper were fair too (I think he misunderstood Piper's 'God spoke to me this morning' blogpost). I was surprised to see Mohler mentioned as the fourth person, but the comments in his case were much briefer.

Anyway, too much comment about these papers, which were only a minor part of the School, would detract from the positive tone of the whole, which was superb. Dr Beeke's contributions were a blessing as always, and John Thackway, Jack Seaton, Roland Burrows, Chris Buss, and Peter Masters, all contributed hugely.

As many here will know, I am a former Tabernacle member with several current family connections, so not perhaps as objective as some, but I thought that it was a good school.
 
"If all the speakers had cancelled, I would still have had a superb time. . ." made me smile, that's how I feel about ladies meetings and retreats, etc.
 
Phil - no I didn't ask Joel to sign my copy as no on else seemed to be asking. But he did sign one for my friend.

Josh - free downloads will be available for a "limited period" from August,

Jonathan - sorry we missed each other, I will PM you before next year. If I was a deacon, or elder, I would certainly not have missed the rap session. I also needed to get to the nearby herb shop to have a chat about business matters - which meant missing one session. I'm sorry if you feel I over focused on the New Calvinist sessions. My background is in politics and I feel on slightly safer ground on this sort of issues. I'm glad we both took the same message from this topic.
 
What shocks me with respect to labelling as "New Calvinist" is Tim Keller. He is a PCA pastor (35+ years, I would guess), having pastored a PCA in Hopewell, VA, taught at Westminster Theological Seminary, and, since 1989, pastored (and church-planted) in NYC. He may be New School in some respects but "New Calvinist?"

Maybe I don't ,quite grasp exactly how New Calvinist is being used here. I could see many being put in that category (Driscoll, Chandler, et al.), that of the "Young, Reformed, and Restless," who would certainly resonate with Pastor Keller. But Tim himself is a Presbyterian of long standing, albeit a New Schooler, at least in some respects.

Peace,
Alan
 
First, I'd like to ask Ken for that website he mentioned about the "New Calvinists". If you would be so kind. :)

For the avoidance of any doubt and/or speculation, Pastor Chris Hand showed, in his two-part paper on 'Hip Hop' that the music in this case is not a neutral matter, and that no matter how 'good' the words, (and he acknowledged that they are in many cases very good, and extremely skillful) not only does Christian hip hop have no place in the worship of God, but that the entire genre should be avoided because of the violent, sexualised, greedy nature of the culture. Before everyone starts whinging and moaning about this, don't argue with me, I'm not here to defend a thesis, just to state the facts. Listen to the presentation in August if the subject interests you, otherwise, hold your peace. (Thanks in advance).

On the 'New Calvinist' paper, the main criticism was levelled at Keller and Driscoll, which I thought was fair, and largely the comments about Piper were fair too (I think he misunderstood Piper's 'God spoke to me this morning' blogpost). I was surprised to see Mohler mentioned as the fourth person, but the comments in his case were much briefer.

Well, I can't and won't comment on the papers (obviously) but I will comment on this. First, rap is defined by the way one uses their voice in a lyrical and rhythmic manner. Rap IS NOT defined by the lyrics one chooses to use. Saying that rap (using a general, blanket statement) is "violent, sexualised" and "greedy" in nature is giving a genre of music moral ability. What about Jazz music? or Swing? During the 1920's both were considered rebellious because dancing (like they did) was considered evil by the fundamentalists (not fundamentalism in the sense of doctrine but legalism). Now, I personally don't listen to rap because I don't like the genre, but I find it ridiculous to label a genre morally evil. Also, I do not and would not advocate rap in worship. That is not only sinful, but it's a mockery and down right blasphemy. Secondly, I think people do not truly understand what "New Calvinism" believes, nor do they know who the people are that advocate such beliefs.
 
Ah, but that would require me to be proactive, and I am basically a lazy soul. ;) I was hoping there would be a website that listed all the Reformed conferences. Like a Reformed version of ticketmaster. No?
 
Well, I can't and won't comment on the papers (obviously) but I will comment on this. First, rap is defined by the way one uses their voice in a lyrical and rhythmic manner. Rap IS NOT defined by the lyrics one chooses to use. Saying that rap (using a general, blanket statement) is "violent, sexualised" and "greedy" in nature is giving a genre of music moral ability. What about Jazz music? or Swing? During the 1920's both were considered rebellious because dancing (like they did) was considered evil by the fundamentalists (not fundamentalism in the sense of doctrine but legalism). Now, I personally don't listen to rap because I don't like the genre, but I find it ridiculous to label a genre morally evil. Also, I do not and would not advocate rap in worship. That is not only sinful, but it's a mockery and down right blasphemy. Secondly, I think people do not truly understand what "New Calvinism" believes, nor do they know who the people are that advocate such beliefs.

But YOU ARE commenting on the papers, and from a position of almost total ignorance save my very little précis.

To qualify, the comments made were about 'hip hop culture', not rap, per se. I'm sorry that you find the considered research of godly men to be 'ridiculous' without even listening to it. This is why I said that I would prefer that my comments were taken as information about the papers rather than some kind of bait.

I'll make no further comment on this to anyone, I'll just recommend that if anyone _really_ cares to know what was said, that they wait to listen to it. Thanks.
 
Agreed!

What shocks me with respect to labelling as "New Calvinist" is Tim Keller. He is a PCA pastor (35+ years, I would guess), having pastored a PCA in Hopewell, VA, taught at Westminster Theological Seminary, and, since 1989, pastored (and church-planted) in NYC. He may be New School in some respects but "New Calvinist?"

Maybe I don't ,quite grasp exactly how New Calvinist is being used here. I could see many being put in that category (Driscoll, Chandler, et al.), that of the "Young, Reformed, and Restless," who would certainly resonate with Pastor Keller. But Tim himself is a Presbyterian of long standing, albeit a New Schooler, at least in some respects.

Peace,
Alan
 
Caroline, there is a Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology every year - you've missed 2012, but you could plan for next year. It's put on by the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. I'm sure there are smaller conference as well, but hearing about them would depend on googling or word of mouth or looking at Reformed magazines.

I don't think there's a Reformed ticketmaster quite yet, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a sort of bulletin board where news of such events could be posted - maybe a Reformed Craigslist?
 
Just for some clarification, here is the title and details of what his agenda is for his speech:
WEIGHING 'CHRISTIAN' RAP/HIP-HOP

In recent times a highly significant line has been crossed even by reformed evangelicals in the adoption of this genre of music for teaching and outreach. These two addresses will show the source, character and connections of this phenomenon to demonstrate its transgression of the biblical principles that should be applied to everything utilised by Christians, and its offensiveness to the Holy Spirit.
 
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