A Catholic Convert on Why He Stays Catholic
- Thread starter Scott
- Start date
- Status
What exactly did he achieve by becoming Roman? He seems to indicate at first missing the spirituality of his (varied) Protestant experience(s). But in the end he's mostly happy with the all-inclusivism and "gravitas" of the Roman entity.
His life story seems rather short to me. Athiest-->Evangelical-->Liturgical-->Roman. Without enough grounding and preparation, he became a Presbyterian seminary student. Too few people are humbled by their "conversion". One reason is they think it was their brilliant "decision". And another reason is because they meet so few "mature" Christians who have any spiritual stature--including pastors. Their self-confidence is not challenged soon enough, and soon many of them follow their own lights to Rome (or somewhere else).
His life story seems rather short to me. Athiest-->Evangelical-->Liturgical-->Roman. Without enough grounding and preparation, he became a Presbyterian seminary student. Too few people are humbled by their "conversion". One reason is they think it was their brilliant "decision". And another reason is because they meet so few "mature" Christians who have any spiritual stature--including pastors. Their self-confidence is not challenged soon enough, and soon many of them follow their own lights to Rome (or somewhere else).
R. Scott Clark
Puritan Board Senior
Same old stuff.
I've often puzzled over evangelicals who pope, as the Lutherans say. I think it works this way.
1. They are on the quest for illegitimate religious certainty. When evangelicalism doesn't provide the sufficient religious experience (another route to certainty), they begin the ecclesiastical trek.
2. it´s notable that he says uses the metaphor "climbing." Indeed. Rome is a sort of ladder to divinity. It's a lot neater than the typical evangelical or pentecostal ladder since it's historical and has a genuine external structure.
3. He's resolved the tension of living in the eschatological valley. He's found archetypal truth. He doesn't have to wonder or wander any longer. It's an over-realized eschatology.
4. Of course, along the way, he has to concoct a wholly fictional account of the history and nature of the Roman church! The QIRC and QIRE, however, are rarely slowed by things such as truth or fact or history or even Scripture.
5. As the culture continues to meltdown, as evangelicalism follows a few paces behind (as the faithful servant of the culture) folks will continue to make this journey.
6. This is why these folk don't stay in or even (usually) visit confessional Protestantism. We can never satisfy the QIRC or QIRE (Quest for Illegitimate Religious Experience; i.e., an immediate encounter with the risen Christ). All we can offer is the preached Gospel and the means of grace administered in lowly, very human congregations. I'm sure that won't satisfy the QIRC and QIRE.
rsc
I've often puzzled over evangelicals who pope, as the Lutherans say. I think it works this way.
1. They are on the quest for illegitimate religious certainty. When evangelicalism doesn't provide the sufficient religious experience (another route to certainty), they begin the ecclesiastical trek.
2. it´s notable that he says uses the metaphor "climbing." Indeed. Rome is a sort of ladder to divinity. It's a lot neater than the typical evangelical or pentecostal ladder since it's historical and has a genuine external structure.
3. He's resolved the tension of living in the eschatological valley. He's found archetypal truth. He doesn't have to wonder or wander any longer. It's an over-realized eschatology.
4. Of course, along the way, he has to concoct a wholly fictional account of the history and nature of the Roman church! The QIRC and QIRE, however, are rarely slowed by things such as truth or fact or history or even Scripture.
5. As the culture continues to meltdown, as evangelicalism follows a few paces behind (as the faithful servant of the culture) folks will continue to make this journey.
6. This is why these folk don't stay in or even (usually) visit confessional Protestantism. We can never satisfy the QIRC or QIRE (Quest for Illegitimate Religious Experience; i.e., an immediate encounter with the risen Christ). All we can offer is the preached Gospel and the means of grace administered in lowly, very human congregations. I'm sure that won't satisfy the QIRC and QIRE.
rsc
I think this is the kindest thing that can be said for this man. He, the author of this piece, once told me that "Van Til was a blathering idiot." I think Dr. Clark has correctly identified "the way it works" for these converts to Romanism. They are on a continual quest for a religious experience, admiring along the way, for example (you will notice from the article), even the feeling he experienced from hanging up one's coat in a church. Now, to be sure, he experienced that feeling in a Protestant church, but it is the feeling he derived from that act which he still values. I think that communicates volumes.
Interestingly enough, very few of these converts to Romanism are as candid as this one in admitting their emphasis on experience when attempting to defend their conversion as such, but it is a recurring motif in multiple testimonies that I've read of their conversion stories.
DTK
Ivan
Pastor
This is EXACTLY the problem as I see it. In fact, it's a problem with most "seekers". I have a difficult time discussing Christianity with most people because nobody believes there is an objective body of truth anymore. There is nowhere for people to "hang their hat". I think the devil's delusiong is almost complete in our day. It is a very scary time in which we live.
- Status
