Another example of why I'm against a state church
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
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RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I have always been against a state-church, per se. Surpsiringly, I believe in the separation of church and state, although not God and state, morality and the state, etc. I am against the setting up of one denomination as the top-dog in the county.
What a bunch of idiots. Why would anyone be something they are not. It must be a costume party to them.
Can you spell deceived?
Can you spell deceived?
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
The thing that I've never understood about theological liberals in general is: why do they devote their lives to something that they believe is not true? I mean, why would this guy even want to bother being a pastor when he doesn't even believe in God?
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
It makes me sad to see my country men surrounded by muslims and liberals. 
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
Easy money.
A good reason to be against the Danish state church. (Plus the fact it's prelatic Lutheran). Remember to distinguish between the use of a principle and the abuse of a principle, such as presbyterians who are for a state established church but were against the Episcopal church obtruded upon them by Charles I & II and the Erastian Presbyterian Church established by William of Orange.
[Edited on 5-30-2005 by Peter]
[Edited on 5-30-2005 by Peter]
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Whether one agrees with Peter's position or not, he does raise a valid distinction to keep in mind.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
"The Establishment Principle is a principle not only worth living for but a Principle worth dying for." -- Dr. John Kennedy of Dingwall, Scotland
To paraphrase Martin Luther, "Men can go wrong with wine and [state churches]. Shall we prohibit and abolish [state churches]?"
More on the Biblical basis for the Establishment Principle here.
[Edited on 5-31-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
To paraphrase Martin Luther, "Men can go wrong with wine and [state churches]. Shall we prohibit and abolish [state churches]?"
More on the Biblical basis for the Establishment Principle here.
[Edited on 5-31-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Martin Luther responds:
"œGod (saith he) hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit." (I Corinthians 2:10) As though he had said, the heart of no man will ever understand or think of any of these things, unless the Spirit shall reveal them; so far is it from possibility, that he should apply himself unto them or seek after them.
-The Bondage of the Will
"œGod (saith he) hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit." (I Corinthians 2:10) As though he had said, the heart of no man will ever understand or think of any of these things, unless the Spirit shall reveal them; so far is it from possibility, that he should apply himself unto them or seek after them.
-The Bondage of the Will
The scandinavian state churches have been a joke for a long time.
I have forsaken my scandinavian heritage and only regard the heritage of my language (English) because of the Scandahooovians' utter depravity. Let's pray for the true believers who have to live up there, though....
My grandparents were the children of swedish emigrants (maternal grandma and both grandpas) and norweigian emigrants (paternal grandma).
All this coming from a guy named Reed Munson living in Minnesota
I have forsaken my scandinavian heritage and only regard the heritage of my language (English) because of the Scandahooovians' utter depravity. Let's pray for the true believers who have to live up there, though....
My grandparents were the children of swedish emigrants (maternal grandma and both grandpas) and norweigian emigrants (paternal grandma).
All this coming from a guy named Reed Munson living in Minnesota
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
I come from Viking stock as well. It's sad to see the religious darkness now taking over there. But I still have some faithful Lutheran family members here.
It reminded me of the scary mixture of church and state:
The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933
"I will never allow anyone to divide this people once more into religious camps, each fighting the other"
- Adolf Hitler
Robin
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Robin]
The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933
"I will never allow anyone to divide this people once more into religious camps, each fighting the other"
- Adolf Hitler
Robin
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Robin]
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
I have'nt forsaken my scandinavian heritage but Im sorely disapointed and discouraged with the rampant growth of Islam and Liberalness in my homeland.
Blade
Blade
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by Robin
It reminded me of the scary mixture of church and state:
The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933
"I will never allow anyone to divide this people once more into religious camps, each fighting the other"
- Adolf Hitler
Robin
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Robin]
Godwin's Law
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Check out the corollaries to Godwin's Law
Moving to Ecclesiology.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Have no delusions of what a state-sponsored Federal establishment of religion would be like here in America... If such an establishment existed it would be popular amongst the PC intelligentsia within the establishment, and give them the perfect forum to wallow in their self-deprecating ways while casting an aura of religiousity over their heads. The pulpit would hear how "good Muslims" and "good gays" goto Heaven, and see how "Judge Not" platitudes are co-opted in a doctrine that grace is a license to sin and amidst much fanfare and enthusiasm from spineless politicians and amoral parishoners crowding in the pews.
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Puritanhead]
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Puritanhead]
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
That is true upon the assumptin (which may or may not be historically valid, all depending on the country) that the government is secular as well. Granted, this is usually the case but there is always that big "What if...."
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