Anyone know Latin?

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

If anyone knows Latin I would be grateful if I have a question answered.

In the Apostles Creed it says 'Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem'. Here, when the creed is translated into English, the word 'omnipotentem' is translated into 'Almighty'.

In a second case there is an old Catholic prayer called the Sanctus. It goes (off memory so pardon my Latin...) 'Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth'. This is often translated as "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty".

I was wondering what theological differences are there in these two words? Are they effectively the same or is there really some form of difference in the meaning here?

I am not suggesting a bit conspiracy theory here "“ It is more out of interest concerning the differences. I should really stop learning screeds of foreign texts until I learn the languages themselves

 

[just_grace]

Latin...

Ancora Imparo

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih
If anyone knows Latin I would be grateful if I have a question answered.

In the Apostles Creed it says 'Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem'. Here, when the creed is translated into English, the word 'omnipotentem' is translated into 'Almighty'.

In a second case there is an old Catholic prayer called the Sanctus. It goes (off memory so pardon my Latin...) 'Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth'. This is often translated as "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty".

I was wondering what theological differences are there in these two words? Are they effectively the same or is there really some form of difference in the meaning here?

I am not suggesting a bit conspiracy theory here "“ It is more out of interest concerning the differences. I should really stop learning screeds of foreign texts until I learn the languages themselves

learn your nouns of third declension and figure it out... :bigsmile:

salvete, et discipuli et discipulae! Quid nunc agitis?

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

I have never learnt latin except in bulk recitation of passages.

 

[Puritanhead]

there is always wheelocks

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih
If anyone knows Latin I would be grateful if I have a question answered.

In the Apostles Creed it says 'Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem'. Here, when the creed is translated into English, the word 'omnipotentem' is translated into 'Almighty'.

In a second case there is an old Catholic prayer called the Sanctus. It goes (off memory so pardon my Latin...) 'Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth'. This is often translated as "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty".

I was wondering what theological differences are there in these two words? Are they effectively the same or is there really some form of difference in the meaning here?

I am not suggesting a bit conspiracy theory here "“ It is more out of interest concerning the differences. I should really stop learning screeds of foreign texts until I learn the languages themselves

Fraser,

omnipotentem (from omnipotens) means exactly that - "all powerful"

Sabaoth is not a Latin word per se. It is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Sabaoth" ( צֽבָ×וֹת ) which is the plural for "armies" or "hosts." Often that is used for an idiom for Lord Almighty. The NIV translates "Lord of hosts' in the Hebrew as "Lord Almighty" every time.

[Edited on 8/20/2005 by fredtgreco]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih
I have never learnt latin except in bulk recitation of passages.

J'y perds mon latin!

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih
I have never learnt latin except in bulk recitation of passages.

J'y perds mon latin!

Anyone know what French is?












Poor provincial Latin!

 

[Puritanhead]

latin never became so rich until all of the transliterations came over-- mostly from the Greek language... some Romans would complain about the sterility of their own language... imagine that... and now imagine a language like English without the transliterations from other languages... Now, what sort of language would that be?

Latin Declension

 

[Puritanhead]

The Death of Alfred
Verse Indeterminate Saxon

Her com ælfred, se unsceððiga æþeling, æþelrædes
sunu cinges, hider inn and wolde to his meder, þe on Win-
cestre sæt, ac hit him ne geþafode Godwine eorl, ne ec oþre
men þe mycel mihton wealdan, forðan hit hleoðrode þa

5
swiðe toward Haraldes, þeh hit unriht wære.
Ac Godwine hine þa gelette and hine on hæft sette,
and his geferan he todraf, and sume mislice ofsloh;
sume hi man wið feo sealde, sume hreowlice acwealde,
sume hi man bende, sume hi man blende,

10
sume hamelode, sume hættode.
Ne wearð dreorlicre dæd gedon on þison earde,
syþþan Dene comon and her frið namon.
Nu is to gelyfenne to ðan leofan gode,
þæt hi blission bliðe mid Criste

15
þe wæron butan scylde swa earmlice acwealde.
Se æþeling lyfode þa gyt; ælc yfel man him gehet,
oðþæt man gerædde þæt man hine lædde
to Eligbyrig swa gebundenne.
Sona swa he lende, on scype man hine blende,

20
and hine swa blindne brohte to ðam munecon,
and he þar wunode ða hwile þe he lyfode.
Syððan hine man byrigde, swa him wel gebyrede,
ful wurðlice, swa he wyrðe wæs,
æt þam westende, þam styple ful gehende,

25
on þam suðportice; seo saul is mid Criste.



That's my mother tongue... and I cannot make it out!

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih
I have never learnt latin except in bulk recitation of passages.

J'y perds mon latin!

Anyone know what French is?

Poor provincial Latin!

ha ha! You have a lot of Gaul, Fred! (j/k)

Latin, c'est une langue morte! La francaise, c'est la langue d'amour et de Calvin!

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

 

[fredtgreco]

And you forget -- the language of running away!

 

[just_grace]

Forgot...

Something like 'I lost my Latin' now the word to scrutinise here is 'perdu' = lost or maybe 'forgot'

Edit...

And btw Latin is not dead, it is very much alive in a very important manuscript One of the earliest actually. So do not knock it

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by just_grace]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by just_grace
Something like 'I lost my Latin' now the word to scrutinise here is 'perdu' = lost or maybe 'forgot'

Edit...

And btw Latin is not dead, it is very much alive in a very important manuscript One of the earliest actually. So do not knock it

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by just_grace]

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Originally posted by just_grace
Something like 'I lost my Latin' now the word to scrutinise here is 'perdu' = lost or maybe 'forgot'

Edit...

And btw Latin is not dead, it is very much alive in a very important manuscript One of the earliest actually. So do not knock it

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by just_grace]

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

Just being light brother, sorry not having a go...

David

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by fredtgreco
And you forget -- the language of running away!

If you heard the French Huguenots singing Psalm 68 in battle you might sing a different tune!

Helas, France got rid of the Huguenots, the best and bravest of her people. Ever since Henry IV said "Paris is worth a mass" because he didn't want to fight to take the city, France has been a weak pushover to Germans and everybody else. C'est dommage!

And I seem to remember -- on the best historical authority -- that King Arthur himself once famously said "Run away!"

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by just_grace

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Originally posted by just_grace
Something like 'I lost my Latin' now the word to scrutinise here is 'perdu' = lost or maybe 'forgot'

Edit...

And btw Latin is not dead, it is very much alive in a very important manuscript One of the earliest actually. So do not knock it

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by just_grace]

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

Just being light brother, sorry not having a go...

David

 

[Puritanhead]

Anyone know what the Greek word for Greek really is? And does anyone know what the etymological origin of the word Greek itself is?

 

[just_grace]

Internet...

It can be so impersonal at times, smilies are a good way of enhancing our feelings when we post.

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Anyone know what the Greek word for Greek really is? And does anyone know what the etymological origin of the word Greek itself is?

This should be interesting....

Edit...

Forgot the smiley...



[Edited on 8-20-2005 by just_grace]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Anybody else read Asterix?

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Anyone know what the Greek word for Greek really is? And does anyone know what the etymological origin of the word Greek itself is?

The Greek word for Greece is "Hellas" ( Ἑλλας )
Greek (adj.) is "Hellenike" ( ἙλληνικοÌÏ‚ )

I don't know where "Greek" came from except that in Latin, the form is "Graecus." Dictionary.com says that it comes from the Greek word for a tribal name - . Anybody have an OED? That would definitely have the answer.

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

Quick Quiz: where does that phrase come from?

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

Quick Quiz: where does that phrase come from?

Je ne comprends pas...

It comes from not understanding and has its roots in the Tower of Babel

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

The expression I gave means "it's all Greek to me." It's a joke, not a serious attack on Latin. I have the highest respect for Latin. But I like French better!

Quick Quiz: where does that phrase come from?

"Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! Mistah Kotter! MIST-AH Kotter!"

Medieval Latin proverb "œGraecum est; non potest legi"

Can anyone say "ionic," um, I mean "ironic"?

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

There are two French ways (that I know of) to say "it's all Greek to me." Both sound funny to English ears:

C'est de l'Hébreu pour moi!

J'y perds mon latin!

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Anyone know what the Greek word for Greek really is? And does anyone know what the etymological origin of the word Greek itself is?

The Greek word for Greece is "Hellas" ( Ἑλλας )
Greek (adj.) is "Hellenike" ( ἙλληνικοÌÏ‚ )

I don't know where "Greek" came from except that in Latin, the form is "Graecus." Dictionary.com says that it comes from the Greek word for a tribal name - . Anybody have an OED? That would definitely have the answer.

That was not there when I posted... not that it lmatters

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
There are two French ways (that I know of) to say "it's all Greek to me." Both sound funny to English ears:

C'est de l'Hébreu pour moi!

J'y perds mon latin!

Neither deal with Greek but Hebrew and Latin

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Anyone know what the Greek word for Greek really is? And does anyone know what the etymological origin of the word Greek itself is?

The Greek word for Greece is "Hellas" ( Ἑλλας )
Greek (adj.) is "Hellenike" ( ἙλληνικοÌÏ‚ )

I don't know where "Greek" came from except that in Latin, the form is "Graecus." Dictionary.com says that it comes from the Greek word for a tribal name - . Anybody have an OED? That would definitely have the answer.

Supposedly during Ottoman occupation of Greece (15th through 19th centuries), the word "Greek" was delienated to the people in Greece because it means "slave" in Turkish. It was a derogative way of making the people feel relegated to inferior status. Therefore, since their independence, the "Greek" people have reverted to their original name for themselves, taken from the ancient Hellenic period. Calling themselves "Hellenic" as adjective or "Hellenes" as people in the plural and the country "Hellas." They do this to restore their pride in themselves and their land. The reason I've always had trouble understanding this tale was told to me second-hand- is because as Fred says Graecus was in wide use in Latin to describe the Greeks... the femine noun Graeca is also used. It sounds so similar.

Though it's not necessarily the root word of anything the Greeks used to describe themselves. In the Aenead epic poem of Virgilius, the appellation Danaos is used to describe the Greeks. Homer too, utilizes a similar word Danai. Also, the Greece was an amalagam of nation-states with tribal allegiances.

Could it be that the Turkish word for slave just sounds similar which is why it was used? I've never been able to verify this Greek=Slave tale with surety, or that the appellation was Turkish. Anybody know?

Chalk this under the trivial and superflous file.