Bco?

[earl40]

Is there mention of the duties of the TE duties? I ask because I looked into this a tad and found little concerning the who is to perform the tasks within a worship service.

 

[Edward]

I ask because I looked into this a tad and found little concerning the who is to perform the tasks within a worship service.

Presuming that you are referring to our denomination, it is pretty much up to the Session, but for the administration of the sacraments.

Keep in mind, though, that the BCO is but one leg of the Constitutional Standards of the denomination. Look also to the WCF and the Larger Catechism, and ultimately to Scripture.

 

[Romans922]

bco 8

In the Directory of Worship, any time it says "Minister" it means a TE.

WLC 156, 158 and WCF 27.4

 

[Edward]

In the Directory of Worship, any time it says "Minister" it means a TE.

For those who might read this thread and who aren't fully familiar with our denomination, to clarify, only the three chapters of the Directory of Worship dealing with the sacraments (56-58) are binding. The rest are merely advisory, but to be 'taken seriously'.

 

[Ed Walsh]

BCO in Acrobat Format

In the Directory of Worship, any time it says "Minister" it means a TE.

I have a 2013 (sixth edition) BCO in Acrobat format, fully searchable with Adobe's Embedded Index. There are 214 instances of the word "minister" I'd be happy to post it if there is anyone who would like a copy. The "Embedded Index" makes all the difference.

BTW - Does anyone know if the sixth edition printed 2013 is the most recent?

 

[Romans922]

Ed, it is updated every year. http://www.pcaac.org/resources/bco/

 

[Ed Walsh]

it is updated every year

Thanks, I now have a searchable Sixth Edition (2015 Reprint) up at www.reformed.org/files/PCA_BCO_Sixth Edition.pdf

Make sure you download it and use Acrobat Reader (unless of course you have the full version) Goto Edit/Advanced Search and you under way.

 

[earl40]

I ask because I looked into this a tad and found little concerning the who is to perform the tasks within a worship service.

Presuming that you are referring to our denomination, it is pretty much up to the Session, but for the administration of the sacraments.

Keep in mind, though, that the BCO is but one leg of the Constitutional Standards of the denomination. Look also to the WCF and the Larger Catechism, and ultimately to Scripture.

Thank you. Our session allows a lot of non ordained leaders to do a ton in our service is why I asked. They regularly lead prayer, and do calls to confession. So I take it this is OK per the BCO but I doubt the WCF addresses this area off the top of my head.

 

[Romans922]

"non-ordained leaders" - just brings one to question if man has created a quasi-office (of the Church) position that isn't actually an office of Christ's church.


BCO 52-1 - minister is to lead the people in prayer.

[The Westminster Directory of Publick Worship also guides who is to pray in worship - the minister: of course this is not binding in the PCA].


However, the issue I'd say is more major is a lack of reverence and understanding for what is actually happening in the corporate worship of the Lord where Jesus leads worship (Hebrews), and the office bearer that Jesus has put into position to lead worship under His authority.

Another issue is 'confession', which is not rightly an element of God's holy worship according to the RPW (also shown through Westminster Standards). Though wrongly one would find something like it in the BCO 55-1. The Divines would roll over in the graves if you were found reciting the Standards, from my reading.

 

[Edward]

Thank you. Our session allows a lot of non ordained leaders to do a ton in our service is why I asked. They regularly lead prayer, and do calls to confession. So I take it this is OK per the BCO but I doubt the WCF addresses this area off the top of my head.

Although it is non-binding compare Directory of Worship 50-1 with 50-2.

50-1 clearly calls for the Scripture reading to be done by the minister." The public reading of the Holy Scriptures is performed by the minister as God’s servant ... The reading of the Scriptures by the minister...."

50-2 clearly provides that the Scripture can be read by anyone. "should be done by the minister or some other person"

While my personal views are that the reading of scripture in public worship and the pastoral prayer are best done by an ordained elder, the conduct you've described in your church is not contrary to the denominational standards, and are probably not uncommon in the larger moderate churches.

 

[Romans922]

50-2 clearly provides that the Scripture can be read by anyone. "should be done by the minister or some other person"

This is clarified under the binding part of our constitution WLC, "Q. 156. Is the Word of God to be read by all?
A. Although all are not to be permitted to read the word publicly to the congregation, yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves, and with their families: to which end, the holy Scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages."

If it is not publicly to be read by all, then 50-2 can't mean (if being consistent) it can be read by anyone.

Also, we must take into account the biblical passages referring to women speaking in worship, and women having authority and teaching men.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

That WLC 156 means that only the TEs should read the word in the worship service is made clear from their earlier produced directory for worship. "READING of the word in the congregation, being part of the publick worship of God, (wherein we; acknowledge our dependence upon him, and subjection to him,) and one mean sanctified by him for the edifying of his people, is to be performed by the pastors and teachers." But then none of that matters since the Westminster Standards in the PCA in practice look like Jefferson's Bible.

50-2 clearly provides that the Scripture can be read by anyone. "should be done by the minister or some other person"

This is clarified under the binding part of our constitution WLC, "Q. 156. Is the Word of God to be read by all?
A. Although all are not to be permitted to read the word publicly to the congregation, yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves, and with their families: to which end, the holy Scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages."

If it is not publicly to be read by all, then 50-2 can't mean (if being consistent) it can be read by anyone.

Also, we must take into account the biblical passages referring to women speaking in worship, and women having authority and teaching men.

 

[Ed Walsh]

But then none of that matters since the Westminster Standards in the PCA in practice look like Jefferson's Bible.

What do you do if there is no church in your area except for a PCA similar to the type described above. I am not a member of the PCA church I attend mostly due to RPW issues. But at christmas they go nuts. E.g., christmas trees, advent wreath, candle light services, and then there are some really awful carols.

Last year I wrote a rather easy going letter (which I could share with names removed if anyone is interested) to one of the elders stating my concerns. It just got shrugged off and never made it to session.

Do I just not attend during the "advent" season? If so, should I withhold my tithe during this time? If so, should I tell them? Or do I just attend, keep my mouth shut and get the best I can out of the sermon and fellowship?
Do I try my letter again, this time to the pastor who we just hired? Can I join this church? Do I just stay home and worship with my family?

Sorry of the questions. It's just really frustrating. I will be 64 tomorrow and I still don't know what I am doing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

PS - If this is too far off the subject feel free to correct me and delete my post.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

That's not a small subject and I have no easy answers. Maybe start a thread in elders only or one of the private forums restricted to elder input?

But then none of that matters since the Westminster Standards in the PCA in practice look like Jefferson's Bible.

What do you do if there is no church in your area except for a PCA similar to the type described above. I am not a member of the PCA church I attend mostly due to RPW issues. But at christmas they go nuts. E.g., christmas trees, advent wreath, candle light services, and then there are some really awful carols.

Last year I wrote a rather easy going letter (which I could share with names removed if anyone is interested) to one of the elders stating my concerns. It just got shrugged off and never made it to session.

Do I just not attend during the "advent" season? If so, should I withhold my tithe during this time? If so, should I tell them? Or do I just attend, keep my mouth shut and get the best I can out of the sermon and fellowship?
Do I try my letter again, this time to the pastor who we just hired? Can I join this church? Do I just stay home and worship with my family?

Sorry of the questions. It's just really frustrating. I will be 64 tomorrow and I still don't know what I am doing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

PS - If this is too far off the subject feel free to correct me and delete my post.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

That's not a small subject and I have no easy answers. Maybe start a thread in elders only or one of the private forums restricted to elder input?

But then none of that matters since the Westminster Standards in the PCA in practice look like Jefferson's Bible.

What do you do if there is no church in your area except for a PCA similar to the type described above. I am not a member of the PCA church I attend mostly due to RPW issues. But at christmas they go nuts. E.g., christmas trees, advent wreath, candle light services, and then there are some really awful carols.

Last year I wrote a rather easy going letter (which I could share with names removed if anyone is interested) to one of the elders stating my concerns. It just got shrugged off and never made it to session.

Do I just not attend during the "advent" season? If so, should I withhold my tithe during this time? If so, should I tell them? Or do I just attend, keep my mouth shut and get the best I can out of the sermon and fellowship?
Do I try my letter again, this time to the pastor who we just hired? Can I join this church? Do I just stay home and worship with my family?

Sorry of the questions. It's just really frustrating. I will be 64 tomorrow and I still don't know what I am doing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

PS - If this is too far off the subject feel free to correct me and delete my post.

I hope you'll do so, Ed!

 

[Edward]

This is clarified under the binding part of our constitution WLC, "Q. 156. Is the Word of God to be read by all?
A. Although all are not to be permitted to read the word publicly to the congregation, yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves, and with their families: to which end, the holy Scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages."

If it is not publicly to be read by all, then 50-2 can't mean (if being consistent) it can be read by anyone.

Also, we must take into account the biblical passages referring to women speaking in worship, and women having authority and teaching men.

I agree with you on this point. I was pointing out the internal inconsistency of the (as I noted) non-binding portions.

 

[Edward]

is made clear from their earlier produced directory for worship.

Which isn't one of the standards of our denomination. And shouldn't be, as it is clearly time bound in the way that the Confession, Larger and Shorter Catechisms aren't. After all, most current worship services don't regularly pray " for the comforting of the afflicted Queen of Bohemia "

 

[Edward]

What do you do if there is no church in your area except for a PCA similar to the type described above.

There have been some earlier threads about folks situated where there is no ideal option for public worship. The church you describe is certainly not out-of-sync with much of the majority of the denomination.

 

[Ed Walsh]

The church you describe is certainly not out-of-sync with much of the majority of the denomination

I am aware of that. Thanks for writing.

To All:
At the suggestion of others I have moved this to an elders only forum: "Help with Christmas and the RPW," and will not be posting any more replies to this thread. At least not on the same subject.

Thanks again for your concern.