Calvin and the church

[Notthemama1984]

faith was a result of the gifts and calling of God and that it occurred within the nurturing embrace of the church, a church that was for Calvin both mother and schol. Outside this church there was no salvation.

This quote is by Steinmetz in his chapter in the Cambridge Campion to Reformation Theology

I have two questions if you do not mind.

First, did Calvin actually believe this? Steinmetz does not back up this claim. He simply states it. The entire book is void of footnotes which is absolutely annoying.

Second, do you believe that outside of the church there is no salvation?



PS thanks to everyone answering all of my questions recently. I really do appreciate it.

 

[dudley]

I think what confuses some Protestants when reading that statement
is that after the Reformation the Roman catholic church called the
Council of Trent and at that council declared that there was no salvation
outside the church of Rome.

I think one needs to understand what Calvin meant by the church. I also think one needs
to understand what Calvin means by the Gospel properly preached and the inerrancy of scripture.
One also needs to understand what role the sacraments of Baptism and the Lords Supper play
within the church according to John Calvin.

Calvin begins his ecclesiology by defining what an authentic church looks like.
He submits, “Wherever the Word of God is sincerely preached and listened to and
wherever the sacraments are administered according to Christ’s institution, we can be
sure the Church of God exists.”

Calvin believed the sacraments to be an “outward sign by which the Lord assures us inwardly of his loving promises.”

Calvin’s view of the nature of Scripture was that it was inerrant and without flaw. A simple glance
at Calvin’s commentaries will demonstrate how seriously the Reformer applied his rigid doctrine
of verbal inerrancy to his exegesis of Scripture.

Calvin interprets this to mean that the church (in his definition of the word) has
the authority to declare the Gospel in such a way that the rejection of it by men would
result in their eternal separation from God. However, to receive the Gospel by faith
would result in their spending of eternity in Heaven; the Protestant doctrine of Justification
by faith alone in Christ alone by the grace of God alone.

 

[Phil D.]

Second, do you believe that outside of the church there is no salvation?

The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. (WCF 25.2)​

 

[Notthemama1984]

Second, do you believe that outside of the church there is no salvation?

The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. (WCF 25.2)​

Just more proof that I need to memorize the Standards more.

 

[Andres]

Yes, I think Calvin really did believe it and, while this means far less, Andrew Silva believes it too. Here is a great quote from a Portrait of Calvin by T.H.L. Parker:

We can see from his writings Calvin’s idea of the Church. There is no truth at all in the old statement that the Reformers were individualists, caring nothing for the Church. Because they broke with the Roman Church and gave up the Roman doctrine of the Church, it does not mean that they broke with any form of Church and held no doctrine of the Church. For Calvin the Church is “the mother of all who have God for their Father,” and therefore,

"there is no other way of entrance into life but by our being conceived by her, nourished at her breast and continually preserved under her care and government until we put off this mortal flesh, and “become as the angels of God.” For our infirmity will not permit of our leaving her school; we must continue under her instruction and discipline to the end of our lives. It must also be observed that out of her bosom there is no hope of remission of sins, or any salvation."

The Church is God’s instrument for the salvation of His children; and the means He employs are the preaching of the gospel and the administration of the sacraments. Since this is so, these means of salvation are the marks by which we can discern the Church: “wherever we find the Word of God purely preached and heard, and the sacraments administered according to the institution of Christ, there, without any doubt, is a Church of God.”

By the pure preaching of the Word of God, he meant the preaching of the biblical gospel in language familiar to the people. The proper administration of the sacraments entailed not only that the laity should communicate in both bread and wine, but also the exercise of discipline, by which flagrant offenders should be excluded from the Lord’s Supper.

 

[Vytautas]

Calvin did not add discipline as a mark of the true Church, since he could not get his way in Geneva. For example, he wanted weekly communion, but the city only granted quarterly communion.

 

[DTK]

Calvin did not add discipline as a mark of the true Church, since he could not get his way in Geneva. For example, he wanted weekly communion, but the city only granted quarterly communion.

Not everyone would agree with this assertion, and I suppose even more would disagree that such pragmatism, so expressed, shaped Calvin's theology concerning the marks of the church. I think one should be careful about offering such simplistic descriptions, especially with respect to a view that has been disputed (i.e. whether or not Calvin believed discipline to be one of the marks of the church).

Moreover, in a letter dated August 12, 1561 (about three years before his death), Calvin did express that he was pleased with the present frequency of the observance of the Lord's Supper in Geneva (monthly), which by the good hand of providence he was instrumental in changing...

John Calvin (1509-1564): We are very pleased that the Lord’s Supper is being celebrated every month, provided that this more frequent observance does not produce carelessness. When a considerable part of the congregation stays away from Communion, the church somehow becomes fragmented. Nonetheless, we think it is better for a congregation [to take Communion] every month than only four times a year, as usually happens here.
When I first came here, the Lord’s Supper was observed only three times a year, and seven whole months intervened between the observance at Pentecost and at the Birthday of Christ. A monthly observance pleased me, but I could not persuade the people, and it seemed better to bear with their weakness than to continue arguing stubbornly. I took care to have it recorded in the public records, however, that our way was wrong, so that correcting it might be easier for future generations. John Calvin, Calvin’s Ecclesiastical Advice, trans. Mary Beaty and Benjamin W. Farley (Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1991), p. 96.

Calvin was able to manage reform considerably, with respect to a more frequent observance of this sacrament, and he did not build his theology of the church on pragmatism.

 

[interalia]

25.2 is on target, but what about the OP's first question of whether Calvin believed this? Also, "ordinary" presents some issue here. With that word, would you then interpret salvation is "typical and majority" via the visible church or "exclusively, save for an outlier that we leave to God and His mysteries" via the visible church?

 

[DTK]

25.2 is on target, but what about the OP's first question of whether Calvin believed this?

John Calvin (1509-1564): But because it is now our intention to discuss the visible church, let us learn even from the simple title “mother” how useful, indeed how necessary, it is that we should know her. For there is no other way to enter into life unless this mother conceive us in her womb, give us birth, nourish us at her breast, and lastly, unless she keep us under her care and guidance until, putting off mortal flesh, we become like the angels [Matthew 22:30]. Our weakness does not allow us to be dismissed from her school until we have been pupils all our lives. Furthermore, away from her bosom one cannot hope for any forgiveness of sins or any salvation, as Isaiah [Isaiah 37:32] and Joel [Joel 2:32] testify. Ezekiel agrees with them when he declares that those whom God rejects from heavenly life will not be enrolled among God’s people [Ezekiel 13:9]. On the other hand, those who turn to the cultivation of true godliness are said to inscribe their names among the citizens of Jerusalem [cf. Isaiah 56:5; Psalm 87:6]. For this reason, it is said in another psalm: “Remember me, O Jehovah, with favor toward thy people; visit me with salvation: that I may see the well-doing of thy chosen ones, that I may rejoice in the joy of thy nation, that I may be glad with thine inheritance” [Psalm 106:4-5 p.; cf. Psalm 105:4, Vg., etc.]. By these words God’s fatherly favor and the especial witness of spiritual life are limited to his flock, so that it is always disastrous to leave the church. Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol. 2, ed. John T. McNeill and trans. Ford Lewis Battles, (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, reprinted 1977), Book IV.I.4, p. 1016.

 

[Wayne]

The proper administration of the sacraments entailed not only that the laity should communicate in both bread and wine, but also the exercise of discipline, by which flagrant offenders should be excluded from the Lord’s Supper.

This raises a thought for further exploration. If Calvin is "charged" with not having specifically enumerated discipline as one of the marks of the Church, is it possible that this was because he saw discipline as part and parcel of the proper administration of the sacraments? Since discipline is inherent in proper administration, there is no need to distinguish it as a separate item. In fact, it would be inappropriate to distinguish it as something separate, given its relationship to the sacraments.

So, whaddaya think?

 

[interalia]

Nice DTK - thanks for the reference!

 

[Vytautas]

Notice that Calvin was only able to secure his position at the end of his life, while his views on church discipline were developed earlier. Also Carl Trueman says that church discipline in the 16th century was based on political allegiances, a form of pragmatism. He says this around 27 minutes into this lecture: SermonAudio.com - Calvin as Reformer

 

[DTK]

Notice that Calvin was only able to secure his position at the end of his life, while his views on church discipline were developed earlier. Also Carl Trueman says that church discipline in the 16th century was based on political allegiances, a form of pragmatism. He says this around 27 minutes into this lecture: SermonAudio.com - Calvin as Reformer

Reform requires time. Moreover, suggesting that Calvin's view of discipline was based on pragmatism doesn't make it so. It wasn't for nothing that Calvin was forced to leave Geneva in 1538 for refusing to serve the Lord's supper to those unfit to partake. We are informed of what Calvin said in a sermon on Easter Sunday 1538 prior to his departure...

Nevertheless Calvin kept back nothing. “We protest before you all,” he said, “that we are not obstinate on the question about bread, leavened or unleavened; that is a matter of indifference which is left to the discretion of the Church. If we decline to administer the supper, it is because we are in a great difficulty which prompts us to this course.” Then he spoke of the divisions, the bands of men, the blasphemies, the profligacies, disorders, abominations, mockery of God and his Gospel, the troubles and the sects which prevailed in the town. “For,” he said, “in public, and without any kind of punishment being inflicted for it, a thousand derisive speeches have been uttered against the Word of God and likewise against the supper.” See J. H. Merle d’Aubigné, History of the Reformation in the Time of Calvin, Vol. VI, trans. William L. B. Cates (New York: Robert Carter & Brothers, 1877), p. 398.