Church discipline

[Me Died Blue]

Other than the Scriptures given as proof-texts in the standards, where would you go to make an exegetical case for Church discipline, including commands from the elders to one or more members, going beyond mere admonition?

[Edited on 1-24-2006 by Me Died Blue]

 

[Scott]

Regarding commands, there are several places to look. One place you see this is seen in Paul´s instruction to Timothy. Paul´s letters to Timothy are called "œpastoral epistles" because in them Paul describes pastoral duties to Timothy, a pastor. Paul instructs Timothy on his responsibility to rule. One of the things Timothy is to do is to "œcommand" people.

"¢ 1 Tim. 6:17. Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.
"¢ 1 Timothy 4:9-11. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.

This right on the part of elders to command implies a corresponding duty to obey, which is made express here:

"¢ Hebrews 13:7, 17, 24. Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.... Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.... Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

As a broader principle, it it helpful to reinforce the point that duly ordained ministers are Christ´s representatives on earth. They stand in His place.

"¢ A Luke 10:1-3, 16. After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. He told them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. . .He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

To reject Christ's ministers is to reject Christ Himself.

Is this what you are looking for, or something else?

[Edited on 1-24-2006 by Scott]

 

[Me Died Blue]

That was basically the type of thing for which I was looking. What similar texts--be they direct Scriptural instructions or biblical example--would people point to in trying to establish the Reformed doctrines of Church discipline and elder authority?

 

[Scott]

A few other things.

> Elders and apostles were entrusted with resolving doctrinal constroversies. Acts 15:6.

> Matt. 23:3 provides general statement of ecclesial authority and its limits: "So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

> Paul tells the church at Corinth to appoint judges to resolves disputes between members. "4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church!" 1 Cor. 6:4. Of the offices described in the Bible, this responsibiluty is most consistent with the office of elder.

> Paul notes that he himself excommunicated Hymaneous and Alexander. 1 Tim. 1:20. Indicates that the duty resides with church officers. This is an important point, b/c it is appropriate to say that the church should put someone out (eg. Matt. 18) and for an officer to say that he individually put someone out. The officer is the agent through which the church acts. Of course, all apostles are elders. 1 Peter 5:1.

 

[BrianBowman]

Originally posted by trevorjohnson
I have heard of some elder-ruled churches having the elders check on each member's bank accounts (to make sure that they are giving a due portion...after all, elders are supposed to help the people do their duties, right?).

What is amazing is that some members did reveal this info to the elders!

What a gross ABUSE of this injunction to submit to authority.

... I've heard of others who have a more surreptitious method. They drive by your house to see of what quality and how big it is as well as the "general scale" of your neigborhood. Then they correlate this with your job title and work-place to get a pretty good idea of what "God's Tithe and Your Offering" should be. Do you think maybe there's some coveting going on here?

What's more, the one's who do this is are generally the least qualified for ministry from an educational and historical-doctrinal viewpoint.