Content knowledge test(s) for parents

[au5t1n]

To clarify, Adam, I do believe that crimes should be punished by the state, such as injuring one's children. This is not a way to monitor, regulate, or enforce parenting (as educational checks and balances would be), but a way to punish crime. Stoning idolaters under the OT falls under the same category--punishing crime. It's not a way to enforce good parenting.

Austin, so you recognize Israel's right and required accountability by scripture to punish evil, whether the evil comes from a brother, a son, a daughter, or a wife. Now do you think by analogy that the church has the right to have accountability and place under discipline those within the church regarding the religious education of children?

I would have to say yes. Teaching a child heresy would be cause for church discipline, for instance.

 

[Scot]

I've heard Dr. Morecraft say (it may have been in the sermon I posted on a previous thread) that in his opinion sending your child to a public school should be cause for church discipline.

 

[Grimmson]

I've heard Dr. Morecraft say (it may have been in the sermon I posted on a previous thread) that in his opinion sending your child to a public school should be cause for church discipline.

He said that near the end of the sermon you wanted me to listen to on Christian Education.

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

To clarify, Adam, I do believe that crimes should be punished by the state, such as injuring one's children. This is not a way to monitor, regulate, or enforce parenting (as educational checks and balances would be), but a way to punish crime. Stoning idolaters under the OT falls under the same category--punishing crime. It's not a way to enforce good parenting.

Austin, so you recognize Israel's right and required accountability by scripture to punish evil, whether the evil comes from a brother, a son, a daughter, or a wife. Now do you think by analogy that the church has the right to have accountability and place under discipline those within the church regarding the religious education of children?

I would have to say yes. Teaching a child heresy would be cause for church discipline, for instance.

So you do recognize then the need for parents to be accountable by the church of what they teach in relation to the doctrines of the church. If the answer is then yes, how should that accountability take place? I ask because in post number 20 here in the thread you said no in relation to the church intervening if parents are teaching something "less than Christian" as our good brother Tim asked in a post 18.

 

[au5t1n]

So you do recognize then the need for parents to be accountable by the church of what they teach in relation to the doctrines of the church. If the answer is then yes, how should that accountability take place? I ask because in post number 20 here in the thread you said no in relation to the church intervening if parents are teaching something "less than Christian" as our good brother Tim asked in a post 18.

I said "no" in relation to the state and "yes" in relation to the Church (see the parenthetical statement).

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

OH! I see where the miscommunication came from now. My post (#20) begins with "As far as I am concerned the answer would still be 'no'..." and you thought I was answering the same question that Bill answered right before me. I can easily see how that would have made sense. My bad. My "no" actually applies to the question of whether parents should be tested according to state curriculum requirements prior to teaching their children a particular subject in lieu of sending them to a certified teacher. It was not an answer to Tim's question. Sorry about that.

 

[JBaldwin]

So you do recognize then the need for parents to be accountable by the church of what they teach in relation to the doctrines of the church. If the answer is then yes, how should that accountability take place? I ask because in post number 20 here in the thread you said no in relation to the church intervening if parents are teaching something "less than Christian" as our good brother Tim asked in a post 18.

I said "no" in relation to the state and "yes" in relation to the Church (see the parenthetical statement).

---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------

OH! I see where the miscommunication came from now. My post (#20) begins with "As far as I am concerned the answer would still be 'no'..." and you thought I was answering the same question that Bill answered right before me. I can easily see how that would have made sense. My bad. My "no" actually applies to the question of whether parents should be tested according to state curriculum requirements prior to teaching their children a particular subject in lieu of sending them to a certified teacher. It was not an answer to Tim's question. Sorry about that.

For those of you who say that parents are accountible to the church for what they teach their children regarding doctrine, how do you suppose that is to be done? Parents can teach their children correct doctrine all day long, but it doesn't mean the child will embrace it. How would the church check that?

 

[au5t1n]

For my part, I am only saying that if it became known that a family in the church was teaching their children, say, Arianism, then the parents should be disciplined (starting with just a rebuke, I would assume). I am not talking about regular examinations in the church.

 

[Hebrew Student]

austinww,

To clarify, Adam, I do believe that crimes should be punished by the state, such as injuring one's children. This is not a way to monitor, regulate, or enforce parenting (as educational checks and balances would be), but a way to punish crime. Stoning idolaters under the OT falls under the same category--punishing crime. It's not a way to enforce good parenting.

The point is, as Grimmson pointed out, teaching your children that God and his word is not the ultimate standard *was* a crime. My point is not to say that we should execute those who do these things today; it is only to say that the law of God does recognize that there needs to be some regulation on what parents teach, even if only that they must not teach their kids to follow after other gods. I am glad to see that, upon further discussion, you do agree that the church should step in if the parents are teaching their children Arianism.

JBaldwin,

For those of you who say that parents are accountible to the church for what they teach their children regarding doctrine, how do you suppose that is to be done? Parents can teach their children correct doctrine all day long, but it doesn't mean the child will embrace it. How would the church check that?

I wouldn't argue that the church should "check" anything in that sense. Even in the civil sphere, you must have an warrant before you can go into someone's house and start an investigation in a civil case. It would be something very similar here. The church cannot start accusing someone without evidence. For example, in Deuteronomy 13, the one place that these things can come from is the family itself, and from those who know the family. Verses 12-14 seem to suggest this, even though they are talking about men of a city.

I think the point would be that, in a society whose first allegance is to God, this would be something that would be pointed out rather quickly, as would things like Arianism, denials of Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, etc. Then, there should be an investigation to see if it is true, and then the appropriate disciplinary action taken. However, the initial evidence would come from simply being in both the family and the church community.

I do find it interesting that this is a civil law. Practically, in our modern culture, I hate to go that route because of the fact that our government is so anti-God and anti-Christ. That is why I say that there seem to be both civil and religious aspects to this law, and it would seem that all three are involved somehow. Again, though, that is only for a society where the family, church, and state actually care about accurately interpreting and obeying God's word.

God Bless,
Adam

 

[bill]

For those of you who say that parents are accountible to the church for what they teach their children regarding doctrine, how do you suppose that is to be done? Parents can teach their children correct doctrine all day long, but it doesn't mean the child will embrace it. How would the church check that?

Both are accountable. Parents and Child. Just because the child is not recognized as part of the invisible church he (the child) is still accountable to believe the truth. The parents are accountable to teach the truth, and the Church would do well in being accountable to both. I find in many churches today that the teaching of the children is left up to the parent (home school, private school, or public school) all to much. That does not say that the church should step in and tell the parents what method they should use to teach there children, however, the church should be involved in what the parent is teaching.

For instance. I send my children to the public school. I am constantly as well as my wife asking my children what they are learning and I work with them through there studies. I and my wife constantly talk to the teacher and the administration to find out what is coming up in my childrens curriculum. If they are to be taught evolution I or watch a video about evolution I ask to view it before they are to be taught it. The school allows me to view it and I or my wife are able to teach our children the errors about evolution and direct them through scripture how the world was made and all things came about through God. We also are active in reading through the bible and catechisms and we spend family devotion time with them as well. Yes it takes up a lot of our time, but I have as well as my children been blessed by this.

However, I have never had a Elder ask me what I am doing to raise my children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Nor do they go to the other parents. They have left it up to the parent. Yet, I am accountable to teach my children the biblical truths and regardless they are accountable to believe what the bible says.

On a side note where is the accountability in the PCA in regards to theistic evolution which is being advocated by some in the New York area? When I look at the church being accountable I mean not just the local church, but the catholic church. Maybe I should have posed this question on a different thread.

 

[TexanRose]

For my part, I am only saying that if it became known that a family in the church was teaching their children, say, Arianism, then the parents should be disciplined (starting with just a rebuke, I would assume). I am not talking about regular examinations in the church.

Historically speaking, Reformed churches considered it their duty to regularly examine the doctrinal understanding of all--young and old--via catechism. The Scottish church employed catechists who did this full time; and at least a few Dutch Reformed ministers (incl. Brakel) considered catechizing to be a part of the minister's duties. While catechizing was also itself a means of instruction, it was primarily (at least in regards to the children) a way of checking up on whether the children were being taught as they should at home.

Personally, I think that it is the church's duty to verify that parents are at least teaching their children to read with a reasonable degree of proficiency, so that they can read the Bible. And if the elders had reason to think that children were not being taught at all due to sloth on the part of the teaching parent, then perhaps discipline would be needed to address the sloth.

 

[au5t1n]

I hadn't thought about catechism as a means for examination. That's a good point.