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What is the idea behind Cov. Renewal Services?
Is this getting too much like FV or is this Biblical to place more emphasis on Lord's Supper than on Preaching/Reading of Word?
What are we to think of this?
Yes, definition, please! What is "covenant renewal worship"? Can't intelligently vote in a poll about a subject I know nothing about.
I voted no. Not just because of the RPW but because God himself has covenanted with me not the other way around. He has saved me with his own right arm and is able to keep me and will not let go. Praise God!!
Michael,
You haven't really proved your definition. You can't really just flat out say, "Covenant renewal worship is biblical worship". You especially can't say this when you know many people disagree (especially on the Puritanboard). So why is this the biblical form of worship?
And one thing to remember is: we don't have sin, burnt, or peace offerings anymore. At least I don't think we do.
I thought I did...
Here is a quote from my Post:
Quote
Covenant renewal worship is the biblically defined set liturgy of worship in the covenant of grace, as defined by scripture. It tells us that not only are the elements of worship important but also the order of worship is important. And that the New Covenant Worship is continued from the Old Covenant in many ways. Jesus' death abolished all animal sacrifice (Hebrews 10:4) but it did not abolish all sacrifice. We are to offer ourselves as "Living Sacrifices" to God (Romans 12:1). The sacrifices of the Old Testament not only point forward to the atoning work of Christ on the cross, they also point forward to our worship as living sacrifices.
End Quote
Hey thunaer, is what you're describing as "covenant renewal worship" any different than the traditional reformed order of worship? Every OPC and PCA service I have been in has the same elements, except for weekly communion (which, I'm sure some churches in both denoms practice). I've never heard it referred to as covenant renewal though.
Andrew, you asked about it, is there a distinctly different service labeled "covenant renewal" that you are thinking of, or is that just a catch phrase used to describe the traditional reformed order of worship? I'm not sure I've heard the phrase before.
Hey thunaer, is what you're describing as "covenant renewal worship" any different than the traditional reformed order of worship? Every OPC and PCA service I have been in has the same elements, except for weekly communion (which, I'm sure some churches in both denoms practice). I've never heard it referred to as covenant renewal though.
Andrew, you asked about it, is there a distinctly different service labeled "covenant renewal" that you are thinking of, or is that just a catch phrase used to describe the traditional reformed order of worship? I'm not sure I've heard the phrase before.
Michael -
The phrase "Covenant Renewal Worship", I think, is generally associated with Jeffrey Meyers's book "The Lord's Service". When you say "covenant renewal worship services" are thus-and-so long, are we safe to assume that you are speaking of Meyers-inflected worship? Can you be more plain about your sources for "covenant renewal" as a definition?
Thanks,
Todd
I voted no. Not just because of the RPW but because God himself has covenanted with me not the other way around. He has saved me with his own right arm and is able to keep me and will not let go. Praise God!!
I have never heard of Meyer's or his book....
I have a quite lengthy work by Eric Sanders titled "On Worship: Strength and Beauty in His Sanctuary"
He describes worship as Covenant Renewal Worship with a set liturgy from Lev. 9. He also explains why and how we worship. He also describes in the work everything I have already said....
Michael
Also, if I'm not mistaken, Meyers views were influenced to a considerable extent by James B. Jordan.
Would you say that in all the instance of Covenant renewing in the Bible that God renewed the Covenant or His people renewed it?
And did (whoever renewed) do it weekly or every Sabbath/Lord's Day or whenever there was unfaithfulness to the Covenant?
In our case, can there be unfaithfulness to the Covenant of Grace when satisfies said covenant in Christ?
Covenant renewal worship tries to introduce an element of the history of salvation into the order of salvation. On the basis of the same method Romanists teach the Mass as a sacrifice. And if anyone has studied covenant renewal in Scripture they will know that sacrifice is part and parcel of it. The Lord's supper is not a sacrifice, but a commemoration of a sacrifice. We do not renew covenant in worship but renew our commitment to the covenant of grace as ratified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I should also note...
That with Covenant renewal worship, it is offering up our sacrifices to God. Our Sacrifices to God our are elements of worship and so every Sabbath our worship renews our covenant keeping with God. We offer up ourselves as living sacrifices through the elements of worship.
Our Sin Offering is our Confession of Sin we offer to God in Worship, and our laments.
Our Burnt Offering is our Sermon and the Word of God...
Our Peace Offering is the Lord's Supper
Since God calls us to worship, he initiates the worship by Calling us to Worship and we close with a benediction following Aaron and Moses example.
Michael
Christ is the sacrifice and offering. The Lev. system was pointing to what Christ has now completed. Ergo, no additional sacrifice is needed by us. We do not need to add anything to the work of Christ. "It is finished".
I don't see any biblical call for "renewal" of the covenant. Either you're in the covenant, or you're not. If you're in, you're in. Our worship is not "renewal of the covenant" but obedience to God. We worship and hear the word, and celebrate the Lords Supper (a memorial), because that is what God has commanded of us. Now because we need to "re-commit" ourselves, or someone get God to re-commit himself to us.