Dancing?
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HuguenotHelpMeet
Puritan Board Freshman
What is not required from scripture in worship is forbidden.
ReederKidsMom
Puritan Board Freshman
How can dancing be controlled and done orderly?
Are you talking about line dancing?
(I do wonder what a controlled and orderly dance would look like)
Are you talking about line dancing?
(I do wonder what a controlled and orderly dance would look like)
Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
I don't know, I'm just asking.
I was talking to a guy from Africa, and although it is hard enough to talk to him because when he talks he gets louder and louder and doesn't listen, etc. etc. etc. But we were talking about what church he went to here, and said he went to a PCUSA church and he said it was an african american church, and did my usual, I wish people called me european american thing, and then he said something about worship is lively and emotional; and I asked him about why that is. And he said that there are teenagers during worship they dance, and as a reformed presbyterian in my head, i gasped. And he said something to the effect that if the church didn't allow them to do their 'secular' dancing, they wouldnt come. And so I said, 'ok so what'. Do they preach the gospel? If they dont come because of that then...oh well. If they come just because of dancing then it isn't a good reason to be there. And he was like, but it is better to have them there than not. I didnt say anything, he rambled on and finally i stopped him and said, "Dancing isn't even scriptural in worship"
Now knowing he was from africa, I knew he would have a problem with this but it slipped out. I said, "If it isnt commanded in Scripture, like Scripture read and preached, sacraments, singing praises to God, etc. then it shouldn't be in communal worship." And he said if i said that to people where he comes from they wouldnt like that and I wouldnt like that. Then I said but if it isnt in Scripture than you and your people are wrong, the bible is what we rely on as our guide b/c it is God's word. and so on, and finally i just walked away.
I was talking to a guy from Africa, and although it is hard enough to talk to him because when he talks he gets louder and louder and doesn't listen, etc. etc. etc. But we were talking about what church he went to here, and said he went to a PCUSA church and he said it was an african american church, and did my usual, I wish people called me european american thing, and then he said something about worship is lively and emotional; and I asked him about why that is. And he said that there are teenagers during worship they dance, and as a reformed presbyterian in my head, i gasped. And he said something to the effect that if the church didn't allow them to do their 'secular' dancing, they wouldnt come. And so I said, 'ok so what'. Do they preach the gospel? If they dont come because of that then...oh well. If they come just because of dancing then it isn't a good reason to be there. And he was like, but it is better to have them there than not. I didnt say anything, he rambled on and finally i stopped him and said, "Dancing isn't even scriptural in worship"
Now knowing he was from africa, I knew he would have a problem with this but it slipped out. I said, "If it isnt commanded in Scripture, like Scripture read and preached, sacraments, singing praises to God, etc. then it shouldn't be in communal worship." And he said if i said that to people where he comes from they wouldnt like that and I wouldnt like that. Then I said but if it isnt in Scripture than you and your people are wrong, the bible is what we rely on as our guide b/c it is God's word. and so on, and finally i just walked away.
ChristopherPaul
Puritan Board Senior
Andrew, you may be interested in H. Richard Niebuhr's book Christ and Culture. My pastor in NJ (PCA) was talking with me one day about some of the topics in this book. I have yet to read it, but it sounds like it addresses your question. From what my Pastor said, the main premise is that elements in church services do differ based on climate and culture, but the gospel remains constant no matter the environment.
An example is John Calvin regularly wore a hat during worship in Geneva to keep himself warm, yet we would never dare wear a hat while in the worship service and would rebuke those that did.
I suppose scripture does not command us to stand still while we sing praises to our Lord. So perhaps it is permissible to move? I don’t know.
(BTW, I accidentally posted last night under my wife’s screen name)
An example is John Calvin regularly wore a hat during worship in Geneva to keep himself warm, yet we would never dare wear a hat while in the worship service and would rebuke those that did.
I suppose scripture does not command us to stand still while we sing praises to our Lord. So perhaps it is permissible to move? I don’t know.
(BTW, I accidentally posted last night under my wife’s screen name)
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Wearing more or decently less clothing for a climate is not the same thing as adding or subtracting elements of worship. We cannot do the latter (Deut. 12:32; What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it).
I don't dance before the Lord in Church services, but I don't see why dance would not be a form of praise and worship.
I mean, what does the Bible say about dancing before the Lord as a form of praise?
Psalms 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp
1Sa 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.
2Sa 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
Psa 30:11 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
Lam 5:15 The joy of our heart is ceased; our dance is turned into mourning.
I mean, what does the Bible say about dancing before the Lord as a form of praise?
Psalms 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp
1Sa 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.
2Sa 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
Psa 30:11 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
Lam 5:15 The joy of our heart is ceased; our dance is turned into mourning.
ChristopherPaul
Puritan Board Senior
And that is what is in question. Indoor heat was not available and it was certainly cold, but I am not talking about simply wearing more or less clothing. I am talking about men covering their heads in worship. It is a cultural thing that affects the interpretation of scripture.
I would not encourage dancing in worship, but I am not sure I would discourage other cultures from doing so. Standing still or kneeling is not required from scripture in worship but is certainly not forbidden. If other tribes and nations stand with hands folded, then let them stand with hands folded. If other tribes and nations dance, then let them dance.
I am having a hard time seeing how dancing can be done in a controlled and orderly manner.
ChristopherPaul
Puritan Board Senior
I don't think many would disagree with you. But the question is, is it permissible while the church is assembled for corporate worship?
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
Answer: Too bad. Whether we like what God teaches or not is demonstration of our "savedness". God determines the manner in which sinners approach Him. You don't, and the people where you live don't. Seems to me that you are interested in entertainment, rather than worship. "...the Father is seeking..." worshippers who worship Him in the way He prescribes. And so.......?
caddy
Puritan Board Senior
A good Book on this is "How God Wants Us to Worship Him : A Defense of the Bible as the Only Standard for Modern Worship. " By Joe Morecraft, III. I have not finished it yet, but it would definately concur with the simple statement made above:
What is not required from scripture in worship is forbidden.
What is not required from scripture in worship is forbidden.
LadyFlynt
Inactive User
We were talking about this in our Sunday School class. The difference between Revivalist and Reformed (as various ethnic cultures generally came from Revivalist churches). The difference was Movement/Silence. Neither one is prescribed. One CAN get out of hand...but is it forbidden? And when dealing with certain ppl (ie., starting an inner city church) you do have to expect it...within reason. There is nothing wrong with a hearty amen....a little swaying may happen in some cultures. Now out and out dancing...I have an issue with that on many levels...and note the OPs friend's reference (emotional). We aren't supposed to appeal simply to emotions (as they are not stable or trustworthy).
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