Elder D.J. Ward
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InSlaveryToChrist
Puritan Board Junior
Although Elder Ward's ministry is influenced by some emotion-manipulative methods (the background music, the way of preaching, etc.), it has graciously come to the knowledge of the doctrines of grace. You may have heard of Jim McClarty, a reformed pastor, he is a close friend of Elder Ward, and he has preached in his church multiple times. Here's one of my favorite sermons by him:
[video=youtube;wGPUDCPrEFU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGPUDCPrEFU[/video]
By the way, Elder Ward is long time dead.
[video=youtube;wGPUDCPrEFU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGPUDCPrEFU[/video]
By the way, Elder Ward is long time dead.
Sovereign Grace Chapel Winston-Salem, NC « A Better Covenant
My wife and I attended Sovereign Grace Chapel in Winston-Salem, NC with Elder Warren Burrell for a year and they were great folks who had great things to say about the influence of D.J. Ward. We were the only white couple there at the time (there was one other mixed-couple) and we felt more at home there than many other churches we had attended. One of the men, an elder in a suit with a shaved head near the front is from Sovereign Grace Chapel in this clip.
When the elders there got together and talked about who blessed them most in their spiritual maturing, Elder D.J. Ward's name often came up. I am glad to finally get to see him "in person."
My wife and I attended Sovereign Grace Chapel in Winston-Salem, NC with Elder Warren Burrell for a year and they were great folks who had great things to say about the influence of D.J. Ward. We were the only white couple there at the time (there was one other mixed-couple) and we felt more at home there than many other churches we had attended. One of the men, an elder in a suit with a shaved head near the front is from Sovereign Grace Chapel in this clip.
When the elders there got together and talked about who blessed them most in their spiritual maturing, Elder D.J. Ward's name often came up. I am glad to finally get to see him "in person."
JM
Puritan Board Doctor
http://www.puritanboard.com/f48/memory-elder-d-j-ward-67103/
I have it on my iPod and meditate on it often.
I have it on my iPod and meditate on it often.
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Take away the breading and there is meat inside. However, there is a little bit of anti-intellectualism present and it took 13 minutes to say what could have been accomplished in 3.
InSlaveryToChrist
Puritan Board Junior
I agree with this. Elder Ward realizes that the things he is addressing to the congregation are not self-evident, but rather they must be stressed time after time. I'd say this aspect of Elder Ward's preaching is totally biblical. There should be more preachers like Elder Ward who pleads with the sinner to come to Christ.
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
My anti-intellectualism comment was targeted at the BA degree comment. I guess you can attribute it to his style of speaking. I'd have to listen to more sermons to see if this was an isolated illustration or if it becomes a pattern.
JM
Puritan Board Doctor
My mistake Rich, apologies.
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
This is my first experience with Pastor Ward, and I like him!
No, I couldn't listen to more than 3.5 minutes.
BUT, grant him his cultural awareness, and the benefit of knowing his audience, and we'd have to honor his preaching--even if we'd be speaking differently.
We (many on this Board) want our sermons meaty and direct; preferably in about 30 minutes. The Puritans (who lived in an age where preaching and oratory was art and entertainment) were able (trained by experience) to follow more lengthy discourses on the Scriptures; still with lots of meat.
Now, the folks in the church on the video may be getting a sermon that has as much content as my 30 minute sermon, but takes as long as an old Puritan sermon. Their ears are trained to that, the repetition they find valuable and helpful. I would be very hesitant to label the sermon "poor" simply on stylistic grounds. But I couldn't preach his sermon well; and I certainly shouldn't preach it, well or otherwise, in my home church. No one there would appreciate it. And if one of those parishioners came to my church, he might not like what he considered my "firehose" delivery (no time to think about what you're saying!). Now, if someone from here went there, he might get something out of it, if he was determined to do so. But it would take willingness to receive a "foreign dish."
I think something we can all take away from this message is that Reformed (biblical) theology (fixed content) can appeal to the whole spectrum of people. It simply needs the best presenter (unfixed style), who speaks (fixed form, preaching) the people's language. And don't be quick to impose what you consider to be "the best" way to learn on another person or group, if they have found something that works. If they will change, it ought to be a "natural" change, not one that is forced down on the culture.
I listened for a little bit to the other speaker (2nd video). His introductory remarks were quite lengthy (granted, its a conference, not his church). But one thing I have to take issue with is how he seemed to equate poverty-of-visible/audible-emotional-engagement with poverty-of-heart-religion. It is a non-sequiter. It is another question of style, only in reverse. He's too willing to slam the "style" of the Lutheran traditions of his youth, lumping it all in with "doctrine-lite" or "liberalism." There are a lot of evidently excited people in some churches without the gospel. And a lot of true believers who are culturally staid.
BUT, grant him his cultural awareness, and the benefit of knowing his audience, and we'd have to honor his preaching--even if we'd be speaking differently.
We (many on this Board) want our sermons meaty and direct; preferably in about 30 minutes. The Puritans (who lived in an age where preaching and oratory was art and entertainment) were able (trained by experience) to follow more lengthy discourses on the Scriptures; still with lots of meat.
Now, the folks in the church on the video may be getting a sermon that has as much content as my 30 minute sermon, but takes as long as an old Puritan sermon. Their ears are trained to that, the repetition they find valuable and helpful. I would be very hesitant to label the sermon "poor" simply on stylistic grounds. But I couldn't preach his sermon well; and I certainly shouldn't preach it, well or otherwise, in my home church. No one there would appreciate it. And if one of those parishioners came to my church, he might not like what he considered my "firehose" delivery (no time to think about what you're saying!). Now, if someone from here went there, he might get something out of it, if he was determined to do so. But it would take willingness to receive a "foreign dish."
I think something we can all take away from this message is that Reformed (biblical) theology (fixed content) can appeal to the whole spectrum of people. It simply needs the best presenter (unfixed style), who speaks (fixed form, preaching) the people's language. And don't be quick to impose what you consider to be "the best" way to learn on another person or group, if they have found something that works. If they will change, it ought to be a "natural" change, not one that is forced down on the culture.
I listened for a little bit to the other speaker (2nd video). His introductory remarks were quite lengthy (granted, its a conference, not his church). But one thing I have to take issue with is how he seemed to equate poverty-of-visible/audible-emotional-engagement with poverty-of-heart-religion. It is a non-sequiter. It is another question of style, only in reverse. He's too willing to slam the "style" of the Lutheran traditions of his youth, lumping it all in with "doctrine-lite" or "liberalism." There are a lot of evidently excited people in some churches without the gospel. And a lot of true believers who are culturally staid.
I should probably add a couple of things to this conversation. First of all, Elder D.J. Ward died in 2008. John Piper had the following to say about Elder Ward on his death:
Elder D. J. Ward, pastor of Lexington's Main Street Baptist Church for the past 19 years, died of complications from lung cancer Friday at Hospice Care Center at St. Joseph Hospital. What the Lexington Herald-Leader did not say about this amazing African-American is that he was a powerful spokesman for the glorious God worshiped through the wall-to-wall window called Calvinism.
I thank God for the one conference we had together. He invited me to the Lexington Pastors’ Conference at his church. I had no idea there was such a self-consciously reformed gathering of mainly African-American pastors almost totally distinct, as far as I could tell, from the resurgence of younger black Reformed brothers present on the internet today. But there it was thriving from around the country under the uncompromising sway of this giant.
Lord, thank you for over 40 years of Bible-saturated ministry with the majesty of Grace at the center. May the sowing of this seed in the ground bring forth a thousand sprouting lovers of the Truth.
- John Piper
BTW: Even though Elder D.J. Ward died of lung cancer, I heard someone say on a podcast that he never smoked a day in his life.
I visited a church in Oak Ridge Tennessee that Elder Ward pastored for a number of years called Mt. Zion Baptist Church. The church is still a sovereign grace church. I really enjoyed the two or three times that I visited there. The current pastor T.L. Mims has a similar preaching style to Ward's. I asked him about his preaching style and mentioned what Piper says in what I posted above about most other black Reformed preachers having a more staid preaching style. He said that the people that he preaches to would fall asleep if he tried preaching that way. He basically said that that style of preaching is like the icing on the cake.
Elder D. J. Ward, pastor of Lexington's Main Street Baptist Church for the past 19 years, died of complications from lung cancer Friday at Hospice Care Center at St. Joseph Hospital. What the Lexington Herald-Leader did not say about this amazing African-American is that he was a powerful spokesman for the glorious God worshiped through the wall-to-wall window called Calvinism.
I thank God for the one conference we had together. He invited me to the Lexington Pastors’ Conference at his church. I had no idea there was such a self-consciously reformed gathering of mainly African-American pastors almost totally distinct, as far as I could tell, from the resurgence of younger black Reformed brothers present on the internet today. But there it was thriving from around the country under the uncompromising sway of this giant.
Lord, thank you for over 40 years of Bible-saturated ministry with the majesty of Grace at the center. May the sowing of this seed in the ground bring forth a thousand sprouting lovers of the Truth.
- John Piper
BTW: Even though Elder D.J. Ward died of lung cancer, I heard someone say on a podcast that he never smoked a day in his life.
I visited a church in Oak Ridge Tennessee that Elder Ward pastored for a number of years called Mt. Zion Baptist Church. The church is still a sovereign grace church. I really enjoyed the two or three times that I visited there. The current pastor T.L. Mims has a similar preaching style to Ward's. I asked him about his preaching style and mentioned what Piper says in what I posted above about most other black Reformed preachers having a more staid preaching style. He said that the people that he preaches to would fall asleep if he tried preaching that way. He basically said that that style of preaching is like the icing on the cake.
InSlaveryToChrist
Puritan Board Junior
I totally agree with you here, Rev. Bruce. That was admittedly a flaw in McClarty's theology. But then again, that had nothing to do with the main topic of the sermon, namely, "What did Jesus accomplish on the cross?" I think McClarty's exposition of that question was Biblical from the beginning to the end.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
I have a great deal of respect for Elder Ward. I know men who knew him, were shaped by him. They are among the most Godly men I've been blessed to know. As far as style, it is that, style. There are many God honouring methods of delivering the Gospel from the pulpit. We must be very careful when we begin to critique that from our own preferences, which are after all cultural. I know men who are solid in their theology who think Spurgeon was obtuse, needlessly wordy, who woefully fell short on supporting his points, manipulated the emotions of his listeners, and was a very poor expositor handling the text loosely.
raekwon
Puritan Board Junior
There is no sweeter sound to my ears than to hear the doctrines of grace expounded in a "traditional" African-American setting and style. Oh, for a resurgence of these doctrines in more black churches! So encouraging.
(Also -- the original post reads a little strangely to me. It's almost like it's saying "hey, fellow intellectual white reformed folks. Here's a fellow of color preaching Calvinism in a style that's different from what we're used to. What do we think? Let us critique him."
Not that that was the intention, but... just be aware of how it might look to some.)
(Also -- the original post reads a little strangely to me. It's almost like it's saying "hey, fellow intellectual white reformed folks. Here's a fellow of color preaching Calvinism in a style that's different from what we're used to. What do we think? Let us critique him."
Not that that was the intention, but... just be aware of how it might look to some.)
I'm sorry if you took it that way. I like this preaching style but I know that many here on the Puritan Board don't.
JS116
Puritan Board Freshman
I like elder wards messages,or at least the ones I have heard,he has influenced alot of good people I know,not only african americans but other minorities.Like stated above everybody has their own methodology,and regular practices they carry out at their church,like me even if I'm a cessationist,the emotion here does not alarm me at all.He is preaching biblical truth to a certain culture with passion and I can respect this 100 times more than I could opposed to someone distorting the truth like td jakes or creflo dolla.
seajayrice
Puritan Board Sophomore
Sounds good, the reformed church needs color.
http://www.sovereigngracebaptistfellowship.org/messenger/messenger_spring_05.pdf
On page 6 of this PDF there is an article about Pastor Warren Burrell, who was influenced by Elder Ward.
And page 13 of this PDF, is a Q and A segment featuring Pastor Warren Burrell as well, under whose preaching I have greatly profited (the PDF also features Pastor Ron Staley from the church in Machanicsville, VA, too (where Joanna goes here I think):
http://www.sovereigngracebaptistfellowship.org/messenger/messenge_summer_05_4.pdf
On page 6 of this PDF there is an article about Pastor Warren Burrell, who was influenced by Elder Ward.
And page 13 of this PDF, is a Q and A segment featuring Pastor Warren Burrell as well, under whose preaching I have greatly profited (the PDF also features Pastor Ron Staley from the church in Machanicsville, VA, too (where Joanna goes here I think):
http://www.sovereigngracebaptistfellowship.org/messenger/messenge_summer_05_4.pdf
JM
Puritan Board Doctor
I agree.
My wife is, ah...black and I took her to a bunch of local Reformed churches, she didn't get the preaching at all. She said it was like being in a class room not worship. Not to mention all the nice Dutch folks kept staring at her and our children.
No grudges though...just a personal note.
This suggests that all other matters aside, there are significant practical difficulties in the way of integration. It is impossible for someone to preach like Elder Ward and like Bruce at the same time, and I have real trouble imagining a hybrid style.
There are two fundamental rules relating to biblical preaching. For matter, preach the word; for manner, preach to the people, not at them. The preaching sampled in the video fails in both respects, but I would not come to a conclusion as to the quality of the preacher based on such a small sample, and a poor one at that. The question is, why is this particular segment being provided as the sample? If the gentleman has obtained a reputation for being a biblical preacher, a sample to that effect would have been much better.
I think that it can be done. Joel Osteen comes to
mind. His false doctrine aside, his church is very multicultural.
Steve Curtis
Puritan Board Senior
Osteen is appealing to such a wide spectrum precisely because he is 'preaching' what every itching ear wants to hear, irrespective of culture.
JM
Puritan Board Doctor
Was that in reply to Rev. Winzer?
Was that in reply to Rev. Winzer?
Yes, him diagnosing Elder Ward as a failure in preaching after a small clip deserves a thumbs down.
Was that in reply to Rev. Winzer?
Yes, him diagnosing Elder Ward as a failure in preaching after a small clip deserves a thumbs down.
HUH?? There is no such "diagnosis." You completely misread Matthew's post and misrepresented what he said:
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JoannaV
Puritan Board Sophomore
I believe most of the video of him is from conferences as opposed to the pulpit. As to his actual pulpit ministry, he taught through Romans verse by verse, maybe 10 sermons per chapter. I don't have the motivation to count the scripture references from one sermon though, lol.
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