"Father, Forgive Them" Question

[Don Kistler]

I don't have an agenda here. I'm just curious as to what others might think.

When Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do," did God forgive them? If not, why not? If so, doesn't that cause some theological problems?

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Some translators, text-critics, and commentators question the authenticity of the expression. That's one way of getting by the phrase in question.

It's possible to subordinate Jesus' prayer to his earlier prayer in the garden, "not my will but thine be done."

It's possible that Jesus prayer for forgiveness is circumscribed to this singular moment, and to the ignorant lackeys obeying orders. In any case, surely it is true for a self-possessed man to unrequite any wrong to his person that he wills to overlook. Lacking repentance for a million other sins, such persons had enough to condemn them for all eternity without this addition.

Plus, it's entirely possible that not only the centurion on site ("...Truly this man was the Son of God." Mk.15:39) but the rest of his company as well made otherwise unknown professions of faith, and were in fact among the first generation of converts. We don't know. It'd be nice to think so.

Do you have specific theological problems in mind, something not addressed in my comment? I'm not claiming any exhaustive address; these are just some of my thoughts...

 

[johnny]

Stephen also recites this prayer while being martyred.
Is it possible that Christ was showing us the desired heart attitude for martyrdom?
Many martyrs throughout history have used these words since then.

 

[timfost]

I think John Bunyan makes an interesting point in relation to the words of Christ and their efficacy:

We must always put difference between the word of the gospel, and the power that manageth that word; we must put difference between the common and more special operations of that power also; even as there is evidently a difference to be put between those words of Christ that were effectual to do what was said, and of those words of his which were but words only, or at least not so accompanied with power. As for instance: that same Jesus that said to the Leper, ‘Say nothing to any man,’said also to Lazarus, ‘Come forth’; yet the one obeyed, the other did not; though he that obeyed was least in a capacity to do it, he being now dead, and stunk in his grave. Indeed unbelief hath hindered Christ much, yet not when he putteth forth himself as Almighty, but when he doth suffer himself by them to be abused who are to be dealt with by ordinary means: Otherwise legions of devils, with ten thousand impediments, must fall down before him, and give way unto him. There is a speaking, and a so speaking: ‘They so spake, that a great multitude, both of the Jews, and also of the Greeks, believed’(Acts 14: 1). Even as I have hinted already, there is a difference between the coming of the word when it is in power (1 Thessalonians 1: 5), and when it is in word only. So then, the blessed grace of election chooseth this man to good, not because he is good; it chooseth him to believe, not because he doth believe; it chooseth him to persevere, not because he doth so; it fore-ordains that this man shall be created in Christ Jesus unto good works (Ephesians 1: 4-Ephesians 1: 6), not if a man will create himself thereto (1 Peter 1: 2; Ephesians 2: 10). (Reprobation Asserted, ch. 10)

 

[MW]

When Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do," did God forgive them? If not, why not? If so, doesn't that cause some theological problems?

This is well explained in Thomas Manton's sermon on the text, where he distinguishes between the prayer as a moral and as a mediatorial action, and shows how it was answered in its mediatorial character.

http://www.oldpaths.org.uk/m/manton...ii34fatherforgivethemfortheyknownotwhattheydo

 

[LarryCook]

I think so.

Acts Chapter 2

36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

[KMK]

Larry,

How can you be a member here since 2004 and you don't have a signature? Maybe they weren't required back in those days. Please click on "Signature Requirements" under my own signature to see how. Thanks.

Also, welcome back to PB!

 

[LarryCook]

I think so.

Acts Chapter 2

36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.