Genesis 32 - Jacob wrestling with God

[kvanlaan]

OK, I read a few other threads on this and have a couple of questions:

1. No man hath seen God.
2. How do we get to this 'man' being the pre-incarnate Christ, when this is never referenced elsewhere. (ie, why does Isaiah not talk about "He who wrestled Jacob and is to come, etc., etc.")

Let me know please, I'm very curious...

 

[Idelette]

Well, I'm no Bible scholar but I know that some say that Christ was involved in creation and that would lend to the belief that He had to exist pre-incarnate. Christ's work in creation is revealed in the New Testament. In John 1:3 we read, "All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made." In Col. 1:16, we read, "By him were all things created," and in Heb. 1:10, "And, You, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands." Also, in John 8:58, Jesus said to the Jews, "Before Abraham was, I am."

I think its also noteworthy to mention that its not just in Genesis 32 that we may see a pre-incarnate Christ. There are several other instances as well. In Joshua, there is one that is called "Captain of the host of the Lord" whom receives worship. And in Daniel, we see one that was "like the son of the gods" in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego.

"Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, (A)a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us or for our adversaries?" He said, "No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua (B)fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, "What has my lord to say to his servant?" The captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, "(C)Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so."- Joshua 5: 13-15

"He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and (E)walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the (F)gods!" -Daniel 13: 25

Source: The Preincarnate Christ

 

[SolaSaint]

Great reply Yvonne,

Yes the Old Testament does demonstrate to us a pre-incarnate Christ, and I believe for men to lay eyes upon Christ whether pre-incarnate or incarnate isn't the same as seeing God the Father face-to-face.

 

[Radical_Pilgrim]

This would make sense as Scriptures say no man can see God (The Father) and live. Hence the reason He showed Moses His backside, right?

 

[louis_jp]

Well, I'm no Bible scholar but I know that some say that Christ was involved in creation and that would lend to the belief that He had to exist pre-incarnate. Christ's work in creation is revealed in the New Testament. In John 1:3 we read, "All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made." In Col. 1:16, we read, "By him were all things created," and in Heb. 1:10, "And, You, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands." Also, in John 8:58, Jesus said to the Jews, "Before Abraham was, I am."

I think its also noteworthy to mention that its not just in Genesis 32 that we may see a pre-incarnate Christ. There are several other instances as well. In Joshua, there is one that is called "Captain of the host of the Lord" whom receives worship. And in Daniel, we see one that was "like the son of the gods" in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego.

"Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, (A)a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us or for our adversaries?" He said, "No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua (B)fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, "What has my lord to say to his servant?" The captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, "(C)Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so."- Joshua 5: 13-15

"He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and (E)walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the (F)gods!" -Daniel 13: 25

Source: The Preincarnate Christ

In other appearances this figure is clearly Messianic, such as the "angel of the Lord" in Zechariah 1-3.

 

[Christopher88]

No man has seen God the Father, however God the son is a different story. (Remember they are three in one, it does not make sence but its truth) Go read Ezechiel) Chapter 1 -3
Look at how Ezechiel saw God. He clearly saw Jesus in His glory.

So man has seen God, but God the son, not the Father.

Three in one, always remember that.