Help with a "verse"

[Marrow Man]

My mom attends a rural church (I'll refrain from mentioning the denomination, but it should be too hard to figure out) that is dispensational de facto in its eschatology (i.e., I'm not sure they know there's anything else out there). The pastor is not seminary trained, though I think he has a two year Bible degree or something akin to it. Anyway, I've been trying to "talk her down" from this perspective whenever we have conversations (limited, since she lives 2 states away in Georgia).

She's mentioned to me a few times recently (in response to the recent financial crisis) that someone told her that "the Bible says that in the end times, people will will have plenty of money but nothing to buy" or something like that. She asked where that was in the Bible, and I told her I was unfamiliar with the "verse." I did several computer word searches while I had her on the phone, as well as a Google search. The closest things I could find are in Isaiah 55 and Revelation 13, but those contexts obviously don't have anything to do with the "verse" in question.

What am I missing here? Am I overlooking something obvious? Can someone more familiar with dispensational theology than I point me toward the "verse" in question? I told her to ask her pastor where this was found; he said he didn't know off the top of his head but it was in the Bible and he would get back to her. Obviously, he hasn't.

 

[biggandyy]

Maybe she is referring to the Mark of the Beast where people will only be able to purchase goods and services if they accept the financial mark instituted by the anti-Christ?

Those who refuse will have plenty of money but unable to buy anything without the Mark.

 

[Kim G]

During a quick Google search, I came across someone who said that when the Bible talks about "a famine in the land of plenty," it means plenty of money but no food to buy.


Also, there's this poem by Rudyard Kipling:

As I pass through my incarnations
In every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations
To the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers
I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings,
I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us.
They showed us each in our turn
That Water would certainly wet us,
As Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift,
Vision, and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas,
While we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed.
They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne,
Like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress,
And presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield,
Or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on
They were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton;
They denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses;
They denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market,
Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming,
They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons,
That the wars of the tribes would cease.
And when we disarmed, They sold us,
Delivered and bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings
Said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Peminian Sandstones
We were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour,
And ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children
And the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings
Said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch
We were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selective Peter,
To pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money,
There was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings
Said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled,
And their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled
And began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters,
And Two and Two do make Four --
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings
Limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future,
It was at the birth of Man --
There are only four things certain,
Since Social Progress began:--
That the Dog returns to his Vomit
And the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's finger
Goes wabbling back to an infernal Fire;

And that after this is accomplished,
And the brave New World Order begins
When all men are paid for existing,
And no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us,
As surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings
With terror and slaughter return!

 

[BobVigneault]

That would be Rev. 6:6:

6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”

The dispensationalist's hermeneutic tells him that this is a time when food will be scarce and very expensive, however, it will also be a time of great luxury and opulence. In other words, their won't be any middle income folks - just the very poor and the very rich. The rich will be insulated from the famine and hunger.

 

[Marrow Man]

Maybe she is referring to the Mark of the Beast where people will only be able to purchase goods and services if they accept the financial mark instituted by the anti-Christ?

Those who refuse will have plenty of money but unable to buy anything without the Mark.

Perhaps. This is what I was referencing when I mentioned Rev. 13 in my post. It seems to be quite a stretch, however.

 

[Marrow Man]

That would be Rev. 6:6:

6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”

The dispensationalist's hermeneutic tells him that this is a time when food will be scarce and very expensive, however, it will also be a time of great luxury and opulence. In other words, their won't be any middle income folks - just the very poor and the very rich. The rich will be insulated from the famine and hunger.

Amazing. I did an exegesis paper on the first verses of Revelation 6 and did not come across this sort of interpretation.

I think all of you are right in what you are pointing to. My problem is that my mother was told that what she was hearing was "a verse in the Bible." So far, Kim is the only one who has found that exact quote, and in a poem by Kipling!!!

 

[turmeric]

That would be Rev. 6:6:

6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”

The dispensationalist's hermeneutic tells him that this is a time when food will be scarce and very expensive, however, it will also be a time of great luxury and opulence. In other words, their won't be any middle income folks - just the very poor and the very rich. The rich will be insulated from the famine and hunger.

Amazing. I did an exegesis paper on the first verses of Revelation 6 and did not come across this sort of interpretation.

I think all of you are right in what you are pointing to. My problem is that my mother was told that what she was hearing was "a verse in the Bible." So far, Kim is the only one who has found that exact quote, and in a poem by Kipling!!!

So much for the Gods of the Copybook Headings!

BTW, what is a copybook heading? It sounds wise.

 

[Marrow Man]

I'm sure someone out there will read the words from the poem Kim posted and declare that Kipling was the Nostradamus of his day:

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled,
And their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled
And began to believe it was true

That's the stock market collapse, Obama, and the unthinking electorate all rolled into one!

 

[MOSES]

15 The sword is without; pestilence and famine are within. He who is in the field dies by the sword, and him who is in the city famine and pestilence devour. 16 And if any survivors escape, they will be on the mountains, like doves of the valleys, all of them moaning, each one over his iniquity. 17 All hands are feeble, and all knees turn to water. 18 They put on sackcloth, and horror covers them. Shame is on all faces, and baldness on all their heads. 19 They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it.
Ezekiel 7


They will have gold and silver, but, there will be no food. They cannot eat thier gold and silver that they have hoarded up for themselves...God's wrath of famine and pestilence is severe. There gold cannot save them.

Of course the Dispensationalists' see evertything in scripture as future and every "wrath" as the wrath at the end times...so it is with this verse for them.


Note: Ezekiel is a very, very important book in scripture for the Dispensationalists...so I would not be suprised if this is not the scripture they are referring to.
I hope that helps!

 

[Kim G]

I'm sure someone out there will read the words from the poem Kim posted and declare that Kipling was the Nostradamus of his day

Here's the first website I found when looking up this issue. Weird stuff.
The Gods of the Copybook Headings

 

[Kim G]

15 The sword is without; pestilence and famine are within. He who is in the field dies by the sword, and him who is in the city famine and pestilence devour. 16 And if any survivors escape, they will be on the mountains, like doves of the valleys, all of them moaning, each one over his iniquity. 17 All hands are feeble, and all knees turn to water. 18 They put on sackcloth, and horror covers them. Shame is on all faces, and baldness on all their heads. 19 They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it.
Ezekiel 7

You win.

That definitely sounds like the passage!