How far should we take financial stewardship?

[davejonescue]

This has been a topic that has been running in my mind for a bit. When I sit back: I see so many areas where I could be saving money. Some examples are buying chicken instead of steak, going to thrift stores for my needs first before seeking brand-new, before I buy a book; see if it is available for free, eating at home instead of going out; all the way to getting the cheaper toilet paper instead of the Charmin (since it goes the same place.)

To begin, this isn't a condemnation or rebuke on how people spend their money. But I often hear it quoted that "our money isn't ours, but we are stewards of the money God blesses us with to propagate his will." To some, this may be a tedious ideology; but, if financial stewardship is God will for our lives, and his will is also to love him with all our mind, heart, soul, and strength; at what point, or where can we differentiate a "liberty" to do as we desire with our money, and a "commission" to be a steward of it to his glory?

While it may not seem like much, but spending $5 to eat at home rather than $15 eating out adds up. Spending $6 for a jar of instant coffee that makes 120 cups, instead of $4 a cup at Starbucks adds up. Spending $20-$30 on a shirt instead of $2-$5 at a Thrift Store adds up. $2 a pound for chicken instead $5 a pound for steak adds up. And I know some are going to hate this, but the Works of Owens (for instance) for free digital, instead of $400-$500 in physical adds up.

Again, this is an issue I am dealing with, and I know we cant be legalistic about it, pressing it on the broader body; but I am starting to feel I could do so much more for the Kingdom if I but suffer a bit with the (blessed) generic, instead of associating my belief and lifestyle with luster (if that makes sense.)

Am I wrong here? Does God put money in our hands to do as we will. Or, is the money we are afforded for the sole purpose of necessity and the Kingdom (also including raising families as Kingdom work.)

I am reminded of the man in Schindler's List looking at his gold ring in agony saying "this could have been one more life...." I don't want to be on my death bed surrounded by stuff only to realize it could have been given to missions, the local church, or those in poverty.

Something inside me wants to look at the reiteration of our future glories in the Sacred Text, as assurance we will lose nothing we could have gained here lest it be a temptation against bearing our brief cross in this vaporous life. Yet, I am daily tempted not to suffer in the realm of my finances via sacrificial living; often feeling a vapor is too long to wait for recompense.

 

[hammondjones]

The Westminster standards list frugality as a duty required by the 8th commandments. I shop at second hand stores when I can. I buy used books when I can. I'll go to a coffee shop basically only if I'm meeting someone. I typically buy what's on sale at the grocery store, within reason. I think these things are all reasonable.

On the other hand I'm about to take a large family trip, which isn't strictly a necessity. So, for me, personally, usually it's not so much the spending money itself, but wasting money, which I object to.

 

[davejonescue]

The Westminster standards list frugality as a duty required by the 8th commandments. I shop at second hand stores when I can. I buy used books when I can. I'll go to a coffee shop basically only if I'm meeting someone. I typically buy what's on sale at the grocery store, within reason. I think these things are all reasonable.

On the other hand I'm about to take a large family trip, which isn't strictly a necessity. So, for me, personally, usually it's not so much the spending money itself, but wasting money, which I object to.

And that is really the nitty gritty I am trying to get to. How do we differentiate spending vs wasting?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

And that is really the nitty gritty I am trying to get to. How do we differentiate spending vs wasting?

I wish I had these answers for you, friend. I think every man should cooperate with and yield to his conscience and the guiding of the indwelling Holy Spirit in accordance with God’s Word. But more than merely to say what some would regard as vacuously true, I wanted to drop in on this thread to say that I found this post to be not so much legalistic as I found it greatly encouraging.

So ask the question and wrestle with the answer. We ought to all toil more in our souls about these things.

Soli Deo Gloria.

 

[Polanus1561]

Quick response is does Eccl. 2:24 inform in any way?

 

[lynnie]

An old dead guy named Paul Bilheimer used to say ( prices are inflated now) that it is fine to spend ten thousand dollars on a decent new car that will get you to work and church without breaking down, and constantly eating up your time to fix it, and maybe getting your wife stranded on the road with kids. But he will surely judge you for spending ten dollars on a useless knick knack that sits on a shelf.
We are on a road to hyper inflation, with trillions being created out of thin air. I wont go into that here, but I think you are sensing from the holy spirit the need to tighten up everywhere you can and learn to live a very frugal life. In a few years you may not have the newer and nicer options at all, and just surviving will be difficult.

 

[arapahoepark]

Conscience issues it seems to me. But, yes, there are many ways we can be saving to invest in/help the poor, missionaries or the local church. I don't think it strictly means being frugal about every little thing. Sometimes it can lead to another mindset or idol, not to mention frugal may mean worse quality. Grades of beef for instance.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

This has been a topic that has been running in my mind for a bit. When I sit back: I see so many areas where I could be saving money. Some examples are buying chicken instead of steak, going to thrift stores for my needs first before seeking brand-new, before I buy a book; see if it is available for free, eating at home instead of going out; all the way to getting the cheaper toilet paper instead of the Charmin (since it goes the same place.)

To begin, this isn't a condemnation or rebuke on how people spend their money. But I often hear it quoted that "our money isn't ours, but we are stewards of the money God blesses us with to propagate his will." To some, this may be a tedious ideology; but, if financial stewardship is God will for our lives, and his will is also to love him with all our mind, heart, soul, and strength; at what point, or where can we differentiate a "liberty" to do as we desire with our money, and a "commission" to be a steward of it to his glory?

While it may not seem like much, but spending $5 to eat at home rather than $15 eating out adds up. Spending $6 for a jar of instant coffee that makes 120 cups, instead of $4 a cup at Starbucks adds up. Spending $20-$30 on a shirt instead of $2-$5 at a Thrift Store adds up. $2 a pound for chicken instead $5 a pound for steak adds up. And I know some are going to hate this, but the Works of Owens (for instance) for free digital, instead of $400-$500 in physical adds up.

Again, this is an issue I am dealing with, and I know we cant be legalistic about it, pressing it on the broader body; but I am starting to feel I could do so much more for the Kingdom if I but suffer a bit with the (blessed) generic, instead of associating my belief and lifestyle with luster (if that makes sense.)

Am I wrong here? Does God put money in our hands to do as we will. Or, is the money we are afforded for the sole purpose of necessity and the Kingdom (also including raising families as Kingdom work.)

I am reminded of the man in Schindler's List looking at his gold ring in agony saying "this could have been one more life...." I don't want to be on my death bed surrounded by stuff only to realize it could have been given to missions, the local church, or those in poverty.

Something inside me wants to look at the reiteration of our future glories in the Sacred Text, as assurance we will lose nothing we could have gained here lest it be a temptation against bearing our brief cross in this vaporous life. Yet, I am daily tempted not to suffer in the realm of my finances via sacrificial living; often feeling a vapor is too long to wait for recompense.

Oh, I almost forgot. These booklets have been out for some time but were recently combined into one Kindle book and published just last month. I commend them both to you in this one Kindle book from Dr. Peter Masters of the Metropolitan Tabernacle (Spurgeon’s Church). It is quite inexpensive ($2.99) by most people’s standards and is very easy reading.

 

[davejonescue]

Conscience issues it seems to me. But, yes, there are many ways we can be saving to invest in/help the poor, missionaries or the local church. I don't think it strictly means being frugal about every little thing. Sometimes it can lead to another mindset or idol, not to mention frugal may mean worse quality. Grades of beef for instance.

And again, this is where I am getting at. What makes a Christian think they deserve the best quality beef? What makes a Christian think they need to get beef when chicken will suffice? "Give us this day, our daily bread" is not a petition of extravagance, but of necessity; not of flavor, but of sustenance; and do we really want to be like Israel in the wilderness, when God fed them by placing their daily food outside their tents, to complain of an observed redundancy or mediocrity when it was in fact the food of angels? Yet he gave in to their desire placing meat in their reach, but in his anger, thousands were struck dead while the meat was still between their teeth.

 

[Polanus1561]

And again, this is where I am getting at. What makes a Christian think they deserve the best quality beef? What makes a Christian think they need to get beef when chicken will suffice? "Give us this day, our daily bread" is not a petition of extravagance, but of necessity; not of flavor, but of sustenance; and do we really want to be like Israel in the wilderness, when God fed them by placing their daily food outside their tents, to complain of an observed redundancy or mediocrity when it was in fact the food of angels? Yet he gave in to their desire placing meat in their reach, but in his anger, thousands were struck dead while the meat was still between their teeth.

Eccl. 2:24 informs in some way... or not..

 

[davejonescue]

Oh, I almost forgot. These booklets have been out for some time but were recently combined into one Kindle book and published just last month. I commend them both to you in this one Kindle book from Dr. Peter Masters of the Metropolitan Tabernacle (Spurgeon’s Church). It is quite inexpensive ($2.99) by most people’s standards and is very easy reading.

Thank you, but this is another way I am trying to cut back. I was tempted this month in Logos the same way. I have almost 10,000 books across Logos and the EEBO-TCP Puritan catalogue. This isnt to mention what is freely available in Google Books or Archive. Continuing to buy books, when I already own a larger library than most in the history of the church prior to the digital age is a form of informational gluttony (in my opinion.) Where now I am just doing it because I can.

 

[davejonescue]

Eccl. 2:24 informs in some way... or not..

I don't think it does as a text to promote libertarian indulgence. This was also written before the commission of grace. Paul I think retorts against this with 1 Corinthians 15.32-34

That is grace affords us a greater expectation and responsibility with what has been entrusted. And by Jesus being raised as evidence of our future glory, the cross we are commanded to presently bear cannot be compared to what lies ahead.

In 1 Timothy 6:17-21 we see Paul telling Timothy to hold the rich to the responsibility of generosity. I think often times in America, if we are not billionaires we take ourselves out of that category. But thinking on this, what would Paul have defined as rich? Do we then steward our finances to a cultural concept of wealth, or a Biblical one?

 

[Polanus1561]

One can hold to responsibility and the enjoying of Eccl. 2:24 no? How does New Covenant membership modify Eccl. 2:24's call to enjoy one's labor?

Poole: There is nothing better for a man; or, Is there any thing better for a man? which implies that there is nothing better, to wit, for man’s present comfort and satisfaction; this is the chief, and indeed the only, considerable benefit of his labours. That he should make his soul enjoy good; that he should thankfully take, and freely and cheerfully enjoy, the comforts which God gives him. That it was from the hand of God; that this also is a singular gift of God, and not to be procured by a man’s own wisdom or diligence.

 

[davejonescue]

One can hold to responsibility and the enjoying of Eccl. 2:24 no? How does New Covenant membership modify Eccl. 2:24's call to enjoy one's labor?

Poole: There is nothing better for a man; or, Is there any thing better for a man? which implies that there is nothing better, to wit, for man’s present comfort and satisfaction; this is the chief, and indeed the only, considerable benefit of his labours. That he should make his soul enjoy good; that he should thankfully take, and freely and cheerfully enjoy, the comforts which God gives him. That it was from the hand of God; that this also is a singular gift of God, and not to be procured by a man’s own wisdom or diligence.

I would suggest that it does by laboring for the Kingdom of God rather than self-enjoyment. Since joy and contentment are graces given by God, they cannot be procured by labor no mater how fastidious; and if we have these graces than over indulgence (however it is defined) is not necessary. Since then our joy is not found in hedonism, but in pleasing the one who has entrusted us our allotment.

 

[KPaul]

I believe Romans 14 is applicable here. If a person sets out to be a good steward with what God has given him, and does so in good conscience, fully convinced in his own mind that he is being obedient, there is no need to feel guilt or shame. If choosing beef rather than chicken cannot be done in good conscience, then perhaps for that person it is a sin.

 

[davejonescue]

I believe Romans 14 is applicable here. If a person sets out to be a good steward with what God has given him, and does so in good conscience, fully convinced in his own mind that he is being obedient, there is no need to feel guilt or shame. If choosing beef rather than chicken cannot be done in good conscience, then perhaps for that person it is a sin.

Yet setting out to do something, and doing it are two different things. Furthermore why would one feel guilt or shame if their conscience were clear, if their conscience be the guide? Again, I am not trying to make rules or expectation for other Christians; but have just been thinking when seeing the entire scope of scripture that much of what the Bible considered rich, is what we (contemporarily/culturally) describe as poor.

And I only mention it back to the point I made that "discrepancies" add up.

 

[davejonescue]

An old dead guy named Paul Bilheimer used to say ( prices are inflated now) that it is fine to spend ten thousand dollars on a decent new car that will get you to work and church without breaking down, and constantly eating up your time to fix it, and maybe getting your wife stranded on the road with kids. But he will surely judge you for spending ten dollars on a useless knick knack that sits on a shelf.
We are on a road to hyper inflation, with trillions being created out of thin air. I wont go into that here, but I think you are sensing from the holy spirit the need to tighten up everywhere you can and learn to live a very frugal life. In a few years you may not have the newer and nicer options at all, and just surviving will be difficult.

I think this could be it.

 

[MarrowMan]

It seems that stewardship is being defined as frugality. Why?

 

[davejonescue]

It seems that stewardship is being defined as frugality. Why?

I think it is because if you place stewardship outside the realm of finances into almost any other realm there is an expectation to invest the best with the resources allocated. Since from a theological perspective, we see all of our resources coming from God; whether that is the health to work, the job that pays, and the recompense for said labors; there is an expectation to be good stewards of those things which have been allotted to us. Financial Stewardship in the context I am looking for insight into is not in a sense of the miser who does so to enlarge his barns. Instead it is a reflection of verses like John 4:34-36 , Luke 6:24-26 , and Luke 16:10-11 and how it either enables us or disables us from Kingdom work. In the idea that our experience as Christians on Earth are crosses to be born, and not necessarily material riches to enjoy; I cant help when reading the Bible, especially the NT, to see a severity in sacrificial living, but also a contrasted "future" expectation of glory and everlasting joy. Frugality in a Kingdom sense is not to expand earthly barns, but to expand the work of the Kingdom and to reserve our riches and rewards for Heaven.

If we will be judged for every needless word we speak; is it too far of a stretch to think such judgment will be directed towards our stewardship of finances as well?

And honestly, this may very easily turn into a question of "what is rich?"

 

[CovenantPatriot87]

Thank you, but this is another way I am trying to cut back. I was tempted this month in Logos the same way. I have almost 10,000 books across Logos and the EEBO-TCP Puritan catalogue. This isnt to mention what is freely available in Google Books or Archive. Continuing to buy books, when I already own a larger library than most in the history of the church prior to the digital age is a form of informational gluttony (in my opinion.) Where now I am just doing it because I can.

Check this article out about Thomas Smyth: https://thisday.pcahistory.org/2019/05/may-28-2/

I think my wife actually showed me this article first, lol.

I found the "word to live by" helpful and sobering as I also was of this mindset:

"Words to Live By:
Suffering a similar affliction (though my own library paled in comparison), I found some years ago that the best way to temper the disease was to realize that I was responsible before the Lord for each volume I purchased. Was it a truly necessary purchase? Would I in fact read it, or at least use it in a way that would justify the expense? Pastors typically need the resources of a good many books and so it is never a foolish expenditure when they are first wisely chosen and then wisely and well-used. Software programs for the study of the Bible add new abilities for search and access, and even make it possible to carry an entire library on a single laptop, tablet, or even a phone."

 

[davejonescue]

Check this article out about Thomas Smyth: https://thisday.pcahistory.org/2019/05/may-28-2/

I think my wife actually showed me this article first, lol.

I found the "word to live by" helpful and sobering as I also was of this mindset:

"Words to Live By:
Suffering a similar affliction (though my own library paled in comparison), I found some years ago that the best way to temper the disease was to realize that I was responsible before the Lord for each volume I purchased. Was it a truly necessary purchase? Would I in fact read it, or at least use it in a way that would justify the expense? Pastors typically need the resources of a good many books and so it is never a foolish expenditure when they are first wisely chosen and then wisely and well-used. Software programs for the study of the Bible add new abilities for search and access, and even make it possible to carry an entire library on a single laptop, tablet, or even a phone."

I kind of resonate more with his wife's admonishment:

"But I would enter a protest not only against books & pictures, but all other things not necessary & which can come under the charge of extravagance. Do be admonished & study to be economical.”

I think particularly speaking bibliophilism is an unspoken slight kind of like gluttony and immodesty now are. While I am not going to be the person who "all of a sudden sees the light," and now starts calling who I was just yesterday (and still am,) heretics, just looking over that list of 6,600 works EEBO-TCP gave us for free; not counting Archive, Google, Monergism, and the list can go on....why would I even consider going out and spending $$$ on books? That money could be given to the poor and oppressed. And like the Bible says "God will reward those whose eyes are on the poor and oppressed, he will be there in his time of sickness and affliction, and he will remedy his ailment" (paraphrase.) Can I grind my books up and make herbal tea to treat my sickness? I think there comes a point, like others have mentioned in other threads, where you just know its enough.

And this then springs out into all other areas of my life. I was thinking about at church, being in the company of the well dressed and affluently fashioned brethren; and I am wearing my thrift store hand-me-downs. Would this be a part of "enduring the shame" in the minds that pity my "poverty," not knowing I could be like most in respect of apparel, but I spend my money on budget, missions, ministries, or benevolence? I mean I wouldn't say it, because it is nothing to brag about. That's the point, it isn't my money. My goal is not to be exceptionally spiritual, but to look a stewardship as a reasonable service. I think a part of our faith is believing in Heavenly rewards, and that, the funds we deposit into the Heavenly bank now, will not result in regret on the things we may have missed from here, in the life to come. This reminds me of the widows mite. Who gave more? The one who gave out of their abundance, or the one who gave in faith out of their lack? And how does God reward? He who sows sparingly, will reap sparingly, and he who sows much, will reap much. So it isn't the actual culminative amount that is sown; more always being greater, and less always being lesser, but the heart in regards to trust in provision/sacrifice in giving/contentment in sustenance/thankfulness for what we have. The main recompense I desire in sowing, though it may be more pain than pleasure, is to be given the graces to be more conformed into the image of Jesus. Because the more I bear the image of the Son, the more God is glorified through me. This is not to say we can purchase graces, but sowing to the Kingdom, rather than excessive temporal comforts; has benefits in this life, and the life to come.

That suit will wear out, those books will fall apart, that delicacy will turn to refuse soon enough; but what we commit to God is everlasting and will not fade with time.

Jesus has already promised to provide all we need if we but seek the Kingdom first. Faith is also trusting in his provision; that is generosity can never lead to destitution if the Commission is our main expense.

 

[MarrowMan]

I think it is because if you place stewardship outside the realm of finances into almost any other realm there is an expectation to invest the best with the resources allocated. Since from a theological perspective, we see all of our resources coming from God; whether that is the health to work, the job that pays, and the recompense for said labors; there is an expectation to be good stewards of those things which have been allotted to us. Financial Stewardship in the context I am looking for insight into is not in a sense of the miser who does so to enlarge his barns. Instead it is a reflection of verses like John 4:34-36 , Luke 6:24-26 , and Luke 16:10-11 and how it either enables us or disables us from Kingdom work. In the idea that our experience as Christians on Earth are crosses to be born, and not necessarily material riches to enjoy; I cant help when reading the Bible, especially the NT, to see a severity in sacrificial living, but also a contrasted "future" expectation of glory and everlasting joy. Frugality in a Kingdom sense is not to expand earthly barns, but to expand the work of the Kingdom and to reserve our riches and rewards for Heaven.

If we will be judged for every needless word we speak; is it too far of a stretch to think such judgment will be directed towards our stewardship of finances as well?

And honestly, this may very easily turn into a question of "what is rich?"

My simple advice to you, is to avoid the path that begins with frugality as the central concept in stewardship. It is not, and down that path lie the twin dangers of legalism and asceticism. Begin your understanding of stewardship in terms of generosity. Good stewardship of our resources, financial or otherwise, is joyful, loving generosity.

ETA: I see that generosity is already on your mind in the post above mine. I replied to the email concerning your response to me. Nonethless, your focus is entirely too much focused on the internal (what may I not do for myself) and far too little on the external (what may I do for God and others). You will find that when your focus is on “what I may do positively”, that will greatly direct what you will not do negatively.

 

[davejonescue]

My simple advice to you, is to avoid the path that begins with frugality as the central concept in stewardship. It is not, and down that path lie the twin dangers of legalism and asceticism. Begin your understanding of stewardship in terms of generosity. Good stewardship of our resources, financial or otherwise, is joyful, loving generosity.

ETA: I see that generosity is already on your mind in the post above mine. I replied to the email concerning your response to me. Nonethless, your focus is entirely too much focused on the internal (what may I not do for myself) and far too little on the external (what may I do for God and others). You will find that when your focus is on “what I may do positively”, that will greatly direct what you will not do negatively.

See, I don't think so. And this then goes back to the widows mite. Having disregard for personal expenditure can develop a generosity out of abundance mentality. Yet, who did Jesus justify? Asceticism is the belief that our deeds make us more righteous; but we all know none of our acts can compare to that which is imputed freely by grace. But the Bible does beckon us to spiritual practices; and one who may be gifted in one area may not be in another, since in fact all graces are gifts. But there is no fault in seeking the best of graces, if God would impart them.

Frugality is one of the only ways to give sacrificially. Otherwise we only give in excess. My intent is not to convict people of indulgence, instead it is to have the greatest impact, thus the greatest stewardship of the finances allotted to me, in regards to Kingdom work.

When we die, we can take nothing with us. And the only treasure we will have in Heaven, apart from Jesus, are those treasures which we stored in Heaven while on Earth.

And as we see, those treasures are not measured by the amount; but are calculated by the heart of the giver.

Jesus clearly lays out the blueprint. On that Day, there are no do overs.

 

[Beoga]

A list of random thoughts:

Contentment in all things
Orient your finances to be charitable and hospitable
I love giving good gifts to my kids
I enjoy when my daughter asks for a toy or stuffed animal.
I do not like it if my child whines if I say no
It is not wrong to gain your freedom if you can.
God is a better Father than me.
Just because something is cheap doesn’t mean it glorifies God. Well crafted more expensive goods or services can honor God.
Be thankful for what you have. Don’t feel guilty for buying something you enjoy if it isn’t sinful and your family is provided for.

 

[Edward]

One should guard against pride in frugality and making an idol of being cheap.

 

[davejonescue]

One should guard against pride in frugality and making an idol of being cheap.

I agree. Pride is void where God empowers.

 

[Ben Zartman]

Live as well as you responsibly can, giving God thanks. If you are steady with your tithes, and always ready to help out a legitimate need that God puts in your way, there's nothing wrong to prefer beef over chicken. After all, God made beef taste better for a reason. Or better toilet paper, since on the way to its final resting place it has to pass by your person.
I'm frugal by long habit, and see no difference between thrift store clothes and new, except that they might have been worn before, and still have the same pair of Sunday shoes I did eight years ago, but I would sin against my wife and children if insisted they have the same clothing standards. Girls NEED shoes, it turns out.
Jacob, Abraham, Joseph, Job, were all pretty loaded, and their material blessings came from God. We must learn both how to be abased and how to abound, and I think part of abounding well is not denying good things to yourself and your family when you have the means to secure them without scrimping on other necessary things.

 

[davejonescue]

Live as well as you responsibly can, giving God thanks. If you are steady with your tithes, and always ready to help out a legitimate need that God puts in your way, there's nothing wrong to prefer beef over chicken. After all, God made beef taste better for a reason. Or better toilet paper, since on the way to its final resting place it has to pass by your person.
I'm frugal by long habit, and see no difference between thrift store clothes and new, except that they might have been worn before, and still have the same pair of Sunday shoes I did eight years ago, but I would sin against my wife and children if insisted they have the same clothing standards. Girls NEED shoes, it turns out.
Jacob, Abraham, Joseph, Job, were all pretty loaded, and their material blessings came from God. We must learn both how to be abased and how to abound, and I think part of abounding well is not denying good things to yourself and your family when you have the means to secure them without scrimping on other necessary things.

I hate kind of that I have to mention this; but in hindsight it does put things into perspective. I have chosen the life of Christian celibacy; and have been such since I became a Christian understanding fornication as sinful. I have been completely given the grace of self-control for quite sometime, even though during that 16 years of celibacy there was a period of p0rnography and things that go with it. So that, now, by Gods grace, I am one who does not lack self-control in the area of sexual immorality, and my sin in that area is now confined to the slips of the mind. Again, this is a grace/gift; and I have always looked at Pauline singleness as the route I would like to traverse in this pilgrimage.

With that being said, one of the promises (or admonitions) of not being bound to a family or divided in interest by a spouse, is the opportunity to be fully devoted to the Lord. I understand most will not understand life-long singleness, let alone desired life-long singleness; but there isn't the same attached expectations associated with it in some regards, and in other areas, there are more. I am not expected to love my wife like Christ loves the church, because I don't have one. Instead I am expected to love the bride of Christ like Jesus loves it, laying my life down for it. I am not expected to leave an inheritance to my children's children, because I will never have children. Instead my offspring will be spiritual and the inheritance I leave them is the example of a holy life, and all that entails. I don't work to provide for a family, to provide for children. I work to provide for my own sustenance; which really God provides for me, but my life is literally Christ.

So rest assure, there is nobody being burdened by my frugality, except me. And this then goes into a contextual understanding of what Paul may have meant by abound. Could, in all the luster he may ever have experienced; walk into the bathroom (indoor plumbing,) turn a knob, and take a hot shower? Could he pop something in the microwave for 30 seconds and it come out hot? Could he store meat, portioned, in the freezer for a month? Could he sit in front of a fan? Could he have a greater variety of spices bought at Dollar Tree, sitting in his cabinet, than Sheba brought to Solomon? Sure, someone could have brought him a few scrolls; but could he have, with a few clicks of the mouse and a $45 a month internet, more "scrolls" than could fit in the library of Gamaliel? When we read the Bible, we see how costly a single change of clothing was, yet, for a single hour of wages, most people today could buy 5 changes at a garage sale.

To me, I believe I have fallen into the trap of cultural indiscretion. That is, my specific context has made me numb to the excesses that are paraded as common. Therefore, if it is my obligation to give my life for the Bride, then I don't look to myself, to understand what loving myself is, so I can love her properly. Instead I look to the example of him who loved her the most. His life was not marked with leisure, but ministry; it wasn't marked by extravagance but expectation; and his greatest act of love toward his beloved wasn't characterized by pleasure, but by pain. This is not to say he didn't enjoy himself at times; but, all his works, whether enjoyment or agony were only to do that which he was sent to do.

I want to finish the race as one who desires to win. I want to fight a good fight. I don't want to go through life as a passive Christian, but to be intentional.

This goes with what you mention. You say "legitimate need," yet our Savior says "give to those who ask, do not deny one who wants to borrow." He says "judge not lest you be judged," and he also says "pray for those who despitefully use you." Yet how easy it is to look at possessions so fondly that we would legitimize withholding it, in the name of wisdom, as if the same God who replaced all that Job lost, couldn't replace any item we now posses; staying faithful to the text, instead of frightful of loss. And I fear, this is what (many) possessions do. The more I build my barn, the more I fear losing, (since my intent is collection,) when all given in the hands of God are secure. Why do we think Paul could say "owning nothing, yet possessing all things?" Because he was not attached to things, but to the creator of all things.

I don't know, I guess it is hard to explain because many will simply not get it. But where much is given, much is required. And when the gift of total devotion to the Lord is given, it comes with responsibilities; that is we do not get the pass of familial distraction. Everything I do is either for him, or for myself. And, if it is for myself, it should be for him. For instance, why would I think of going to Paris if not to minister? Will Paris not exist in the New Earth? And if not, will I miss a marred version of what is to come?

In all these things I say, I am definitely not there yet, nor, do I know if I will ever be. But I do know, Lord Willing, that my goal is to strive for that High Calling in Christ. I will get to enjoy eternal bliss by his grace, a blessed gift I didn't purchase; with this in mind, how should I spend this vapor? I am reminded of this Psalm.

“You, indeed, have made my days as handbreadths, and my lifetime as nothing before You. Truly each man at his best exists as but a breath. Selah”

Like someone once told me, "it will be over before you know it." If therefore we are but a vapor, how ought we to direct our lives?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I hate kind of that I have to mention this; but in hindsight it does put things into perspective. I have chosen the life of Christian celibacy; and have been such since I became a Christian understanding fornication as sinful. I have been completely given the grace of self-control for quite sometime, even though during that 16 years of celibacy there was a period of p0rnography and things that go with it. So that, now, by Gods grace, I am one who does not lack self-control in the area of sexual immorality, and my sin in that area is now confined to the slips of the mind. Again, this is a grace/gift; and I have always looked at Pauline singleness as the route I would like to traverse in this pilgrimage.

With that being said, one of the promises (or admonitions) of not being bound to a family or divided in interest by a spouse, is the opportunity to be fully devoted to the Lord. I understand most will not understand life-long singleness, let alone desired life-long singleness; but there isn't the same attached expectations associated with it in some regards, and in other areas, there are more. I am not expected to love my wife like Christ loves the church, because I don't have one. Instead I am expected to love the bride of Christ like Jesus loves it, laying my life down for it. I am not expected to leave an inheritance to my children's children, because I will never have children. Instead my offspring will be spiritual and the inheritance I leave them is the example of a holy life, and all that entails. I don't work to provide for a family, to provide for children. I work to provide for my own sustenance; which really God provides for me, but my life is literally Christ.

So rest assure, there is nobody being burdened by my frugality, except me. And this then goes into a contextual understanding of what Paul may have meant by abound. Could, in all the luster he may ever have experienced; walk into the bathroom (indoor plumbing,) turn a knob, and take a hot shower? Could he pop something in the microwave for 30 seconds and it come out hot? Could he store meat, portioned, in the freezer for a month? Could he sit in front of a fan? Could he have a greater variety of spices bought at Dollar Tree, sitting in his cabinet, than Sheba brought to Solomon? Sure, someone could have brought him a few scrolls; but could he have, with a few clicks of the mouse and a $45 a month internet, more "scrolls" than could fit in the library of Gamaliel? When we read the Bible, we see how costly a single change of clothing was, yet, for a single hour of wages, most people today could buy 5 changes at a garage sale.

To me, I believe I have fallen into the trap of cultural indiscretion. That is, my specific context has made me numb to the excesses that are paraded as common. Therefore, if it is my obligation to give my life for the Bride, then I don't look to myself, to understand what loving myself is, so I can love her properly. Instead I look to the example of him who loved her the most. His life was not marked with leisure, but ministry; it wasn't marked by extravagance but expectation; and his greatest act of love toward his beloved wasn't characterized by pleasure, but by pain. This is not to say he didn't enjoy himself at times; but, all his works, whether enjoyment or agony were only to do that which he was sent to do.

I want to finish the race as one who desires to win. I want to fight a good fight. I don't want to go through life as a passive Christian, but to be intentional.

This goes with what you mention. You say "legitimate need," yet our Savior says "give to those who ask, do not deny one who wants to borrow." He says "judge not lest you be judged," and he also says "pray for those who despitefully use you." Yet how easy it is to look at possessions so fondly that we would legitimize withholding it, in the name of wisdom, as if the same God who replaced all that Job lost, couldn't replace any item we now posses staying faithful to the text instead of frightful for a loss. And I fear, this is what (many) possessions do. The more I build my barn, the more I fear losing, when all given in the hands of God are secure. Why do we think Paul could say "owning nothing, yet possessing all things?" Because he was not attached to things, but to the creator of all things.

I don't know, I guess it is hard to explain because many will simply not get it. But where much is given, much is required. And when the gift of total devotion to the Lord is given, it comes with responsibilities; that is we do not get the pass of familial distraction. Everything I do is either for him, or for myself. And, if it is for myself, it should be for him. For instance, why would I think of going to Paris if not to minister? Will Paris not exist in the New Earth? And if not, will I miss a marred version of what is to come?

In all these things I say, I am definitely not there yet, nor, do I know if I will ever be. But I do know, Lord Willing, that my goal is to strive for that High Calling in Christ. I will get to enjoy eternal bliss by his grace; with this in mind, how should I spend this vapor? I am reminded of this Psalm.

“You, indeed, have made my days as handbreadths, and my lifetime as nothing before You. Truly each man at his best exists as but a breath. Selah”

Like someone once told me, "it will be over before you know it." If therefore we are but a vapor, how ought we to direct our lives?

Amen. Thanks for sharing! I’ll be honest, our interactions have given me pause when I reflect on the fact that “SBC” is in your signature. Your comments have been a great encouragement to me because of how few in the SBC I’ve encountered that have sought to live holy lives before the Lord. It’s not fair to generalize or stereotype, but it’s been my lived experience. I just haven’t seen it. To this I say Soli Deo Gloria. The Calvinistic founders of that once great denomination no doubt make up some part of the great cloud of witnesses watching you run the race to win.

Not only will you not have to concern yourself with a family, but you also won’t need to concern yourself with the potential idolatry of family.

I have seen earthly concerns elevated far above heavenly concerns so many times. It can be a pernicious problem among those in our big Reformed tent. Yet Luke 9:60 says what it says. Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[davejonescue]

Amen. Thanks for sharing! I’ll be honest, our interactions have given me pause when I reflect on the fact that “SBC” is in your signature. Your comments have been a great encouragement to me because of how few in the SBC I’ve encountered that have sought to live holy lives before the Lord. It’s not fair to generalize or stereotype, but it’s been my lived experience. I just haven’t seen it. To this I say Soli Deo Gloria. The Calvinistic founders of that once great denomination no doubt make up some part of the great cloud of witnesses watching you run the race to win.

Not only will you not have to concern yourself with a family, but you also won’t need to concern yourself with the potential idolatry of family.

I have seen earthly concerns elevated far above heavenly concerns so many times. It can be a pernicious problem among those in our big Reformed tent. Yet Luke 9:60 says what it says. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Thank you for the kind words. But I have not been called to preach, that is, I have not been recognized, nor have had a calling for Pastoral ministry affirmed or confirmed by my local elders or church. Yet, I do not think Pauline singleness is isolated to formal ministry, or even missions. It is for those, whom God has put it in their hearts, to seek sole devotion; for what ever reason. Therefore my goal, Lord willing is to do that which I can, under the general authority given to all disciples in the scriptures; or of my elders, and nothing more. God has created each of us individually, within the body, for a designated purpose. He is the one who told the wave, you can only go this far. Let me first give praise he beheld me. Let me always consider it a grace if but to loosen the strap of his sandal. And let me fearfully pray I may never transgress the sacred landmarks.