Illegal Christian Immigrants
- Thread starter Victor
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This is a blog entry I made.
Illegal immigration is a very complicated problem, but one that many churches are having to start to address. I don't understand all the issues but defrauding illegal immigrants is not right. And this is something that is happening. Illegals defrauding the USA is not right but this is happening every time an illegal immigrant enters our country illegally. We also are having a very bad crime problem that is growing due to the illegal immigrants. Despiration and a depraved heart can cause a person to act as a violent animal acts. This situation is very bad.
But when a church finds an illegal immigrant on its door step how should we respond? I am not sure this applies to every situation but here is the example of St. Paul concerning one situation that might illuminate us.
Maybe we could glean from Paul concerning this situation.
Let's look at Onesimus. He was a fugitive of the law and his master. Paul knew Onesimus' Master. Onesimus was an unconverted runaway slave and thief when he ran into Paul. He was illegally at a destination that he was not suppose to be at. Philemon had every legal right to pursue Onesimus. Philemon and Paul where heirs of the Kingdom of Christ. Onesimus became one while with Paul. Did Paul send Onesimus right back to Philemon because he ran away from his master? I don't think so. Onesimus became useful to Paul. In fact Onesimus is probably responsible for the distribution of Paul's epistles all over Asia Minor. He also became a Bishop of the Church.
So looking at Onesimus and Paul we can glean that there is room for mercy and growth. Onesimus was sent back to Philemon eventually and Paul pleaded for any damage Onesimus caused to be charged to himself. He said he would repay. But we also need to have in mind that Onesimus became profitable to Paul and the Church. Not all illegal immigrants are going to become profitable nor right recipients of mercy and grace.
This is not going to fit every situation. Illegal immigration is a very complicated problem. I imagine the church in its wisdom will be pleasing in some of its decisions and not so pleasing to the LORD in other decisions concerning this topic. Either way the Law is the law, mercy is mercy, but grace and truth are found in Christ. In the long run a Christian illegal immigrant should return home in my opinion. It is obeying the laws of the land.
Illegal immigration is a very complicated problem, but one that many churches are having to start to address. I don't understand all the issues but defrauding illegal immigrants is not right. And this is something that is happening. Illegals defrauding the USA is not right but this is happening every time an illegal immigrant enters our country illegally. We also are having a very bad crime problem that is growing due to the illegal immigrants. Despiration and a depraved heart can cause a person to act as a violent animal acts. This situation is very bad.
But when a church finds an illegal immigrant on its door step how should we respond? I am not sure this applies to every situation but here is the example of St. Paul concerning one situation that might illuminate us.
Maybe we could glean from Paul concerning this situation.
Let's look at Onesimus. He was a fugitive of the law and his master. Paul knew Onesimus' Master. Onesimus was an unconverted runaway slave and thief when he ran into Paul. He was illegally at a destination that he was not suppose to be at. Philemon had every legal right to pursue Onesimus. Philemon and Paul where heirs of the Kingdom of Christ. Onesimus became one while with Paul. Did Paul send Onesimus right back to Philemon because he ran away from his master? I don't think so. Onesimus became useful to Paul. In fact Onesimus is probably responsible for the distribution of Paul's epistles all over Asia Minor. He also became a Bishop of the Church.
So looking at Onesimus and Paul we can glean that there is room for mercy and growth. Onesimus was sent back to Philemon eventually and Paul pleaded for any damage Onesimus caused to be charged to himself. He said he would repay. But we also need to have in mind that Onesimus became profitable to Paul and the Church. Not all illegal immigrants are going to become profitable nor right recipients of mercy and grace.
This is not going to fit every situation. Illegal immigration is a very complicated problem. I imagine the church in its wisdom will be pleasing in some of its decisions and not so pleasing to the LORD in other decisions concerning this topic. Either way the Law is the law, mercy is mercy, but grace and truth are found in Christ. In the long run a Christian illegal immigrant should return home in my opinion. It is obeying the laws of the land.
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
Tell our brothers to submit to the law of the land and the consequences of it.
They may have to go home for awhile or permanently but the law is law and designed to protect the borders of a sovereign nation.
They may have to go home for awhile or permanently but the law is law and designed to protect the borders of a sovereign nation.
Anton Bruckner
Puritan Board Professor
in secret I agree with you, but in public,"you are a racist that don't like mexicans"
...and then apply for legal immigration and do things the right way, like a person who is seeking God would want to do (i.e. be honest in their dealings).
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
As the son of legal immigrants to Canada, I just can't get fired up about granting amnesty to illegals. It's one thing if they are refugees from Rwanda coming into the US. But Mexico? Come on.
To get my green card process started, I had to apply and pay the fees, etc. and get in line with everyone else, and that was from Canada. Also, Randy, I don't know about the comparison you gave. Slavery is simply not on an equal footing with Mexican citizenship (I know you know this, I just find the example then to be a bit of a stretch for my intellectual digestion).
To get my green card process started, I had to apply and pay the fees, etc. and get in line with everyone else, and that was from Canada. Also, Randy, I don't know about the comparison you gave. Slavery is simply not on an equal footing with Mexican citizenship (I know you know this, I just find the example then to be a bit of a stretch for my intellectual digestion).
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
Believe it or not, I'm on the fence on this one. There are people that actually ARE escaping horrible atrocities in Mexico by coming here. And honestly, we can't claim that we wouldn't do the same. On the other hand I do understand that it is killing our economy, my husband lost many jobs due to immigrants that worked for less or under the table. Nothing like losing your job just so they can hire 4 serbians in your place. But we definately weren't mad at the serbians...we were mad at the crooked company that was out to mess everyone over...including the serbians.
Victor
Inactive User
Now, I don't mean to imply that a couple of you are biased but why was it assumed in the discussion that illegal immigrants are Mexicans? Surely, you guys don't think that they are the only ones entering this country do you? You have central and south Americans, Asians, Middle Eastern folk, etc.
In theory, I agree with some of you stating that one should return to one's home country and apply legally. However, in practice, this is virtually impossible. For example and argumentative purposes, let us suppose you were brought here as an infant by your parents, have no family in your home country and consequently no one to return to; what then?
I also agree with LadyFlynt when she states that these immigrants are escaping atrocities in their home country, such as extreme poverty, corruption, persecution, etc. Additionally, she is right to state it is not the Serbians fault but the corrupt factories and companies offering sub-minimum wage salaries with no Worker's Comp coverage. After all, what one makes in a foreign country such as Mexico as a Doctor can be surpassed in the U.S. as a Forklift Operator.
In theory, I agree with some of you stating that one should return to one's home country and apply legally. However, in practice, this is virtually impossible. For example and argumentative purposes, let us suppose you were brought here as an infant by your parents, have no family in your home country and consequently no one to return to; what then?
I also agree with LadyFlynt when she states that these immigrants are escaping atrocities in their home country, such as extreme poverty, corruption, persecution, etc. Additionally, she is right to state it is not the Serbians fault but the corrupt factories and companies offering sub-minimum wage salaries with no Worker's Comp coverage. After all, what one makes in a foreign country such as Mexico as a Doctor can be surpassed in the U.S. as a Forklift Operator.
Kevin,
I wasn't making a comparison to the slavery vs. illegal immigrant per individual situation as much as looking at the legality of Paul holding an illegal runaway slave against the will of the law maybe. And I say maybe because Onesimus may have sought legal asylum under Paul a greek citizen. I am not sure. I was making a legal situation comparison.
Anton Bruckner
Puritan Board Professor
Deportees use "revolving door" to return to U.S.
By Tim Gaynor Thu Aug 30, 7:12 AM ET
PHOENIX (Reuters) - When a heavy knock came on the door of her Phoenix home, Mari knew that the immigration police had finally caught up with her. Arrested and held for a month in a U.S. jail, she was sent back to Guatemala on a prison flight.
ADVERTISEMENT
But four weeks later, after raising a $5,000 smuggling fee, she was back with her family in Arizona.
As U.S. authorities step up deportations of illegal immigrants, a growing number of them, like Mari, are simply turning round and heading back stateside to rejoin families and resume their lives.
"Guatemala is no longer my home. All my roots are here in the country I have lived in since I was 15 years old ... I felt I had no option but to try to come back," said Mari, which is not her real name.
The little reported phenomenon of the repeat lawbreakers was highlighted by the high-profile case of Elvira Arellano, the Mexican illegal immigrant deported earlier this month for slipping back into the United States despite a previous removal in 1997.
"I know a lot of people in the same position as Elvira ... their whole life is here," said Mari's husband, Samuel, who is also an undocumented immigrant.
"If they throw them out of the country, sooner or later they will be back."
REVOLVING DOOR
Some 12 million illegal immigrants live in the shadows in the United States. Last year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents deported 183,431 people amid stepped up raids in workplaces and homes nationwide.
ICE said removing Arellano -- who sought sanctuary in a Chicago church and became a cause celebre for pro-immigration activists -- was necessary to enforce U.S. immigration laws, and ensure that they were applied fairly.
"Miss Arellano willfully violated those laws and must face the consequences of her illegal actions," Jim Hayes, ICE director in Los Angeles, told a news conference.
Although no records are kept of the numbers of deported immigrants sneaking back in to the country -- as Arellano did to join her 8-year-old U.S.-born son Saul -- anecdotal evidence suggests that it is widespread.
"Deportation is a revolving door," said Elias Bermudez, the founder of Immigrants Without Borders, an advocacy group which works with thousands of illegal immigrants in the border state of Arizona.
"People are picked up at their homes and deported, and some of them are back in three or four days, so it is not an effective policy," he added.
Among those who have made the trip back is Demetrio, a Mexican waiter arrested and removed from Los Angeles in 2006, leaving behind a Guatemalan wife and two young children. He declined to give his last name.
Just seven weeks after being deported he slipped back into California through the gritty border city of Tijuana, using border crossing documents widely available on the black market.
"My children were crying, my wife's heart was broken. What could I do in Mexico without my family?" he said of his decision to break the law and return to Los Angeles, where he owns a house.
RESUMING THEIR LIVES
Earlier this year the U.S. Congress rejected comprehensive immigration reform allowing many illegal immigrants a path out of the shadows.
The government has since ramped up workplace enforcement, netting more than 160 workers in a raid on a poultry plant in Ohio in August.
Once back in the United States, previously deported immigrants often resume their lives. Demetrio waits tables in the same Los Angeles restaurant he previously worked, while Mari is back in her family's home in Phoenix.
Reunited with their spouses and children, many of whom were born in the United States and know no other home, the repeated law breakers weigh their diminishing options in the wake of Arellano's deportation, and as a crackdown announced by the U.S. the Department of Homeland Security gathers pace.
"I am waiting for the chance to one day become legal, but from what I can see there is little hope, and I can see all the doors closing," said Demetrio, adding that he is thinking of returning to Mexico if he sees no future in the United States.
Others like Mari and Samuel, trapped between the Central American nation they were born and the United States where they raised three children, remain fearful but still defiant.
"Every car that pulls up outside the house makes me nervous," said Mari, sitting behind drawn curtains in the home where she was arrested by ICE agents three years ago.
"But instead of crushing us, it is only making us more determined to stay."
(additional reporting by Adriana Garcia in Washington)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070830/lf_nm/usa_immigration_return_dc
By Tim Gaynor Thu Aug 30, 7:12 AM ET
PHOENIX (Reuters) - When a heavy knock came on the door of her Phoenix home, Mari knew that the immigration police had finally caught up with her. Arrested and held for a month in a U.S. jail, she was sent back to Guatemala on a prison flight.
ADVERTISEMENT
But four weeks later, after raising a $5,000 smuggling fee, she was back with her family in Arizona.
As U.S. authorities step up deportations of illegal immigrants, a growing number of them, like Mari, are simply turning round and heading back stateside to rejoin families and resume their lives.
"Guatemala is no longer my home. All my roots are here in the country I have lived in since I was 15 years old ... I felt I had no option but to try to come back," said Mari, which is not her real name.
The little reported phenomenon of the repeat lawbreakers was highlighted by the high-profile case of Elvira Arellano, the Mexican illegal immigrant deported earlier this month for slipping back into the United States despite a previous removal in 1997.
"I know a lot of people in the same position as Elvira ... their whole life is here," said Mari's husband, Samuel, who is also an undocumented immigrant.
"If they throw them out of the country, sooner or later they will be back."
REVOLVING DOOR
Some 12 million illegal immigrants live in the shadows in the United States. Last year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents deported 183,431 people amid stepped up raids in workplaces and homes nationwide.
ICE said removing Arellano -- who sought sanctuary in a Chicago church and became a cause celebre for pro-immigration activists -- was necessary to enforce U.S. immigration laws, and ensure that they were applied fairly.
"Miss Arellano willfully violated those laws and must face the consequences of her illegal actions," Jim Hayes, ICE director in Los Angeles, told a news conference.
Although no records are kept of the numbers of deported immigrants sneaking back in to the country -- as Arellano did to join her 8-year-old U.S.-born son Saul -- anecdotal evidence suggests that it is widespread.
"Deportation is a revolving door," said Elias Bermudez, the founder of Immigrants Without Borders, an advocacy group which works with thousands of illegal immigrants in the border state of Arizona.
"People are picked up at their homes and deported, and some of them are back in three or four days, so it is not an effective policy," he added.
Among those who have made the trip back is Demetrio, a Mexican waiter arrested and removed from Los Angeles in 2006, leaving behind a Guatemalan wife and two young children. He declined to give his last name.
Just seven weeks after being deported he slipped back into California through the gritty border city of Tijuana, using border crossing documents widely available on the black market.
"My children were crying, my wife's heart was broken. What could I do in Mexico without my family?" he said of his decision to break the law and return to Los Angeles, where he owns a house.
RESUMING THEIR LIVES
Earlier this year the U.S. Congress rejected comprehensive immigration reform allowing many illegal immigrants a path out of the shadows.
The government has since ramped up workplace enforcement, netting more than 160 workers in a raid on a poultry plant in Ohio in August.
Once back in the United States, previously deported immigrants often resume their lives. Demetrio waits tables in the same Los Angeles restaurant he previously worked, while Mari is back in her family's home in Phoenix.
Reunited with their spouses and children, many of whom were born in the United States and know no other home, the repeated law breakers weigh their diminishing options in the wake of Arellano's deportation, and as a crackdown announced by the U.S. the Department of Homeland Security gathers pace.
"I am waiting for the chance to one day become legal, but from what I can see there is little hope, and I can see all the doors closing," said Demetrio, adding that he is thinking of returning to Mexico if he sees no future in the United States.
Others like Mari and Samuel, trapped between the Central American nation they were born and the United States where they raised three children, remain fearful but still defiant.
"Every car that pulls up outside the house makes me nervous," said Mari, sitting behind drawn curtains in the home where she was arrested by ICE agents three years ago.
"But instead of crushing us, it is only making us more determined to stay."
(additional reporting by Adriana Garcia in Washington)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070830/lf_nm/usa_immigration_return_dc
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