Illegal for pastors to speak against homosexuality

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LadyFlynt;

Well, I guess we'll all meet in jail...
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Or maybe we can call our Congressmen and Senators urging them to VOTE NO on these two Bills..

Also contact your local news stations and share with them how this also effects the First Amendment "Freedom of Speech" they hold so dearly...(even though they may not see the ramifications of it right now) consider if they call a crime evil on their nightly news broadcast..it would apply to them as well...because no longer would evil be evil and good good...in the eyes of the land...
 
Why can't someone proclaim that God's Word says that homosexuality is an abomination or that God says that it is.

I am not saying (as a pastor preaching) this, God has written in the Bible, the Truth, if you have a problem with Him saying this then ...
 
govols;

Why can't someone proclaim that God's Word says that homosexuality is an abomination or that God says that it is.

I am not saying (as a pastor preaching) this, God has written in the Bible, the Truth, if you have a problem with Him saying this then ...
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Does your congressman and senator profess at ALL to be Christians?? If SO, Then e-mail them and confront them concerning what they proclaim they believe...maybe share with them how it will APPLY to them as well..

And who knows maybe as Christians we could also file charges against those who speak out against Christianity???? And how that is also a HATE Crime..

Maybe we should also contact the churches they belong to and implore the pastors to Immediately inact the the Matthew 18 Process on these men and women!!! Should it matter that we are NOT members of their congregations? As we are supposed to be ONE BODY??? And if they refuse should we not publically address this issue to the entire Body of Christ of those Pastors reactions??
 
What I was saying that if I'm a pastor I would say that God's Word proclaims that homosexuality is sin and if you have a problem with God's Word don't blame me, seek Him.
 
BJClark said:
LadyFlynt;



Or maybe we can call our Congressmen and Senators urging them to VOTE NO on these two Bills..

Also contact your local news stations and share with them how this also effects the First Amendment "Freedom of Speech" they hold so dearly...(even though they may not see the ramifications of it right now) consider if they call a crime evil on their nightly news broadcast..it would apply to them as well...because no longer would evil be evil and good good...in the eyes of the land...
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I'm sure they'll listen to us serfs. They are going to jam scamnesty for illegals down our throats like it or not. Hate speech laws are coming.
 
here is a letter I wrote to my sentator..

Dear Sentator Nelson,

As a Christian, and one in your voting area, I am VERY Disappointed concerning your stance on these hate Crime Bills.

It appears our Congressmen and Senators have forgotten the very First Amendment written in our Consititution concerning the Freedom of Speech!!!

Do you even realize how these bills will effect YOUR church? Your Children? Your Grandchildren? Your Great Grand Children??
I honestly doubt any one of you who voted in favor of this are looking at long term ramifications on this Nation and it's citizens.

Not one single one you will be able to speak out against ANY EVIL being evil either!! Be it Islam, or Moslem Laws in other countries, Lest YOU personally be charged with a hate Crime!! But then you don't see that side of it do you?? Consider all those who voted in favor of ANY War or Sanctions against another country, would those not also be considered HATE Crimes???

Consider your grandchild getting in a fight at school and calling someone a name in the heat of the fight, that person could in turn charge your grandchild with a hate crime..But do any of your see these things? Apparently not, Your eyes are blinded to the deeper ramifications of this Bill or any Bill like it.

How will our jails, state finances and courts be able to handle the increase in cases and criminals?? Where will tax dollars come from in order to house all those 'new' criminals? Oh wait, they will have to reinstate the death penality in order to make room for them or let other criminals out of jail in order to house the new.

How will Homeland security be able to monitor all of these new criminals?

Will our military be brought back to America and used as a Police Force, making US a Policed State now and not a Free People??

Looking at and considering ALL of these things, do You see the deeper ramifications of Your vote in favor of this Bill?

Honestly, I do NOT expect a reply, just as I have not recieved any reply from my previous e-mail to you concerning these same issues, but I guess that is to be expected as I do not hold to the same views as you, as I'm sure your staff withholds this type of correspondence from you.

I challenge you Senator, to consider Your claim to be a follower of Christ,
from your actions and your voting record you do not live out what You claim to believe. Consider these verses.

Luke 6:46

"Why do you call me "Lord, Lord" and do not do what I say?"

1 John 14:21

"The man who says "I know him" but does NOT do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in Him."

But most importantly take note of Romans 1:18-32 specifically verse 32.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they who commit such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but those who have pleasure in them that do them."

Do you not take seriously the judgment of God? Or are they just words to you, written by some men thousands of years ago, not to be taken seriously? What is it that you really believe to be true about the God you claim to follow and love? Do you believe He is ONLY a God of Love but not also a God of judgment? If you only believe He is about Love, then you make Him into a God of your own making--Because He is Both a God who loves and a God who will judge those who sin against Him.
 
LadyFlynt;

My feelings, precisely. They are no longer "representing" the common people. They are representing corporations, lobbyists of the worst kind, and themselves. "vote us in so we can mess you over"...sure.
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There was something on Fox News the other night about how many of the lobbyist are also family members of these congressmen and senators who are paid thousands of dollars by these people in office to lobby them..
 
I share everyone's outrage about adding "gender identity" to the list of protected classes that increase the penalty for crimes, but has anyone else actually read the bill? It does not outlaw preaching or speech. It applies to bodily injury or attempt to commit bodily injury with a weapon based upon "actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person. . . ."

Here is the applicable language of H. R. 1592 as referred to the Senate:
. . .

Sec. 8, (a)(2) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person--
`(i) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, fined in accordance with this title, or both; and
`(ii) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if--
`(I) death results from the offense; or
`(II) the offense includes kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill.

(Underlines are mine).

Unless there is some other bill out there, nothing is on the table to outlaw preaching against homosexuality. You are just prohibited from physically injurying them or attempting to injure them with a specified weapon. So if you are preaching, don't punch anyone or threaten them with a gun or a bomb.

By the way, the last part of the bill makes it clear that it doesn't apply to free speech without violent acts:

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.

I don't like the bill, but let us attack it honestly instead of bringing up a false enemy.

The link to the text is below, but it is only temporary. If it goes dead, go to the thomas.loc.gov website and do a search on the Bill number 1592. Pick either the "engrossed" bill or the "referred to Senate" bill.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c110PKMWuJ::
 
victorbravo said:
I share everyone's outrage about adding "gender identity" to the list of protected classes that increase the penalty for crimes, but has anyone else actually read the bill? It does not outlaw preaching or speech. It applies to bodily injury or attempt to commit bodily injury with a weapon based upon "actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person. . . ."

Here is the applicable language of H. R. 1592 as referred to the Senate:
. . .

Sec. 8, (a)(2) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person--
`(i) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, fined in accordance with this title, or both; and
`(ii) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if--
`(I) death results from the offense; or
`(II) the offense includes kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill.

(Underlines are mine).

Unless there is some other bill out there, nothing is on the table to outlaw preaching against homosexuality. You are just prohibited from physically injurying them or attempting to injure them with a specified weapon. So if you are preaching, don't punch anyone or threaten them with a gun or a bomb.

By the way, the last part of the bill makes it clear that it doesn't apply to free speech without violent acts:

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.

I don't like the bill, but let us attack it honestly instead of bringing up a false enemy.

The link to the text is below, but it is only temporary. If it goes dead, go to the thomas.loc.gov website and do a search on the Bill number 1592. Pick either the "engrossed" bill or the "referred to Senate" bill.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c110PKMWuJ::
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I went to AFA's site where they were calling the legions to action but was unable to find any quotes from the bill or any links to what it actually says. It only says "the bill provides for (blah blah blah)." Does anyone know whether I missed it? Is the text of the bill itself, or even a direct quote, available on AFA's page?
 
CarolinaCalvinist said:
I went to AFA's site where they were calling the legions to action but was unable to find any quotes from the bill or any links to what it actually says. It only says "the bill provides for (blah blah blah)." Does anyone know whether I missed it? Is the text of the bill itself, or even a direct quote, available on AFA's page?
Click to expand...

A link is buried in their website.

It is essentially a link to the thomas link I gave above:

http://www3.capwiz.com/afanet/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1592:

If you click on the engrossed version, you'll see the same language as what I quoted.

The AFA does not quote from the bill text that I can see. This sort of alarmism based upon misstated facts bothers me and gives Christians a bad name. It is false witness.
 
I'm confused. Is this one of those inferential thought crimes incidental to committing a real tangible crime like homicide? Or does it include simply making blanket statements such as condemning a person for their immoral lifestyle? I understand in Canada, teleevangelists / pastors have to edit their broadcasts to conform to Canada's evolving human rights standards, which makes offensive speech against sheltered minorities (i.e., Moslems, homosexuals) into a crime.
 
Thanks for taking the time to research this, Vic. If this is all there is to it then you are definitely right. Is the AFA just trying to get more money, or what? Before I unsubscribed from their mailing list there was always a little jab for a donation at the end...

Puritanhead said:
I'm confused. Is this one of those inferential thought crimes incidental to committing a real tangible crime like homicide? Or does it include simply making blanket statements such as condemning a person for their immoral lifestyle? I understand in Canada, teleevangelists / pastors have to edit their broadcasts to conform to Canada's evolving human rights standards, which makes offensive speech against sheltered minorities (i.e., Moslems, homosexuals) into a crime.
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According to the text of the bill it only includes doing bodily harm or attempting to do bodily harm.
 
Puritanhead said:
I'm confused. Is this one of those inferential thought crimes incidental to committing a real tangible crime like homicide? Or does it include simply making blanket statements such as condemning a person for their immoral lifestyle? I understand in Canada, teleevangelists / pastors have to edit their broadcasts to conform to Canada's evolving human rights standards, which makes offensive speech against sheltered minorities (i.e., Moslems, homosexuals) into a crime.
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It's the first, Ryan. It applies to actual violent crimes and adds "gender identity" to the other protected classes, such as race or religion. It does not apply to statements that are not accompanied by bodily harm or threats of violence with a specified weapon.
 
I do not understand what the issue is. Surely the Word is to be preached in season and out of season. It is God who sets the agenda! If we want the Church to grow and pray for it, then persecution may be the means. Will we then stop praying / preaching? Are we to rob men of the transforming power of the Gospel (which also extends to immoral people, see Ro.1:16, 1.Cor.6:9f.) by our guilty silence? We need not fear men if we fear God.
Let it be said in passing that homosexuality is not the only sin listed in Scripture. I have only ever heard one preacher condemn gluttony (and that may apply to some of us). Christ's fiercest condemnation is reserved for another category, see Mt.23.
If they want to ban the Bible – well, what about Juvenal? It would be rude to print his views. Here in the UK I have not heard the Muslim community speaking out – which is rather strange.
This is not a time to be discouraged. Things are bad – they may get worse, but the best is still to come.
 
AV1611 said:
I do not believe that you are 100% correct here but there have been moves to try to make it so - Equality Act 2006 and the Sexual Orientation Regulations 2006 see here.

You may wish to refer here: http://www.christian.org.uk/home.htm
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Oh. We had a visiting professor from Scotland in a month ago and Dr. Murray said it had passed and that if a pastor spoke out against homosexuals, it was a hate crime. I apologise if I am wrong.
 
jawyman said:
Oh. We had a visiting professor from Scotland in a month ago and Dr. Murray said it had passed and that if a pastor spoke out against homosexuals, it was a hate crime. I apologise if I am wrong.
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It depends what you say in that if you incite hatred then that would be illegal (I think). I am a little out of the loop at the moment so you could be correct.

BTW: Was it John J Murray who was visiting?
 
AV1611 said:
It depends what you say in that if you incite hatred then that would be illegal (I think). I am a little out of the loop at the moment so you could be correct.

BTW: Was it John J Murray who was visiting?
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Well, according to the Brits I am wrong and since it is their country, I'll take it I was missinformed.

Our new professor is Dr. David P. Murray of Stornoway Free Church of Scotland.
 
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