Here is an interesting blog post claiming that because of Christ's coming we cannot sing the imprecatory Psalms, simpliciter. Any thoughts?
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As David Chilton would say, "Effeminate and Emasculated" :bigsmile: from Days of Vengeance.Originally posted by py3ak
Here is an interesting blog post claiming that because of Christ's coming we cannot sing the imprecatory Psalms, simpliciter. Any thoughts?
Originally posted by py3ak
Here is an interesting blog post claiming that because of Christ's coming we cannot sing the imprecatory Psalms, simpliciter. Any thoughts?
This psalm was probably composed in Chaldea, during the captivity, and contains, (1.) The Jews' grievous bewailing of their distress, contempt, and reproach, ver. 1, 4. (2.) Their tender and affectionate remembrance of, and concern for Jerusalem the church and ordinances of God, ver. 5-6. (3.) Denunciations of destruction to the Edomites, who had promoted, and the Chaldeans, who had affected their distress and captivity, ver. 7-9.
While I sing, let me bless the Lord for what mercy is my lot, above that of many others. Let the welfare of God's church lie near my heart. Let me earnestly desire, and firmly expect the ruin of all her and my spiritual foes.
[align=center]John Brown of Haddington[/align]
Originally posted by jaybird0827
A former pastor once reminded me that we sing the Psalms we sing Christ's words in union with him.
Ever since hearing that, I cannot possibly imagine myself singing Fanny Crosby "hymns", or Isaac Watts' "imitations" in union with Christ. Those aren't his words.
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
The argument that Christians cannot sing or pray the imprecatory psalms is an old one, and was a powerful point in Isaac Watts' justification for paraphrasing the Psalter to make David sound more like a Christian.
Some helpful resources are provided in this earlier thread and some good discussion can be found in this thread.
part of my post, Dr. Clark.simpliciter
The principle advocated is that these "vindictive" Psalms voice the feelings and sentiments that animate Christ in His struggle with the incorrigible enemies of His Kingdom and His determination to punish them. Working on this principle, we feel sure that Psalm-singers will have no reason to complain that there is anything in this great autobiography of Him Who is "the way, the truth, and the life" [John 14:6] unsuited either to their sermons or experience.
Occasions abundantly justifying their proper use are to be found in the history of the Church. There have been times when the children of God have been compelled to fight for their own lives and the cause of truth with carnal weapons. Their bravery on many a hard-fought field is enshrined in the memory of the Church. When the Spanish Armada swept down on the shores of England, pious and patriotic hearts united in that mighty war-song, "Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered, let them also that hate Him flee before Him." [Ps 68:1] They nerved the heart of an English David and his stern Ironsides to accomplish a work for God and humanity that required men of iron to do. They swept to victory with their spirits strengthened for the shock of battle by these songs. These "Justice" Psalms were needed and used, and used aright, by the persecuted Waldenses, the hunted Camisards, the oppressed Covenanters. Men of every shade of religious belief (the fact is notorious) turned to them in the days of our Civil War. When the awful story of the Armenian atrocities filled the civilized world with horror, righteous indignation sought as its fittest vehicle of expression these Psalms. And can we not find in them passages that we can use with perfect propriety and a spirit of genuine piety to describe the lawless raids of the municipal freebooters of the twentieth century?
...
When all is quiet and peaceful the Church may not feel very often or keenly the need of these so-called imprecatory songs, and may study them in a merely academic way; but when the shock of a great battle for the truth and with implacable enemies is upon her, when the storms of persecution rage, when her foes beset her round on every side, when earthly hope vanishes and her faith is tried as by fire, then she turns to these Psalms. They may have been stumbling blocks to her faith in her prosperity, but they prove steppingstones heavenward in her adversity, because in them the Judge of all the earth assures her of the ultimate destruction of her enemies and the complete and everlasting triumph of her cause.
We further condemn Jewish dreams that there will be a golden age on earth before the Day of Judgment, and that the pious, having subdued all their godless enemies, will possess all the kingdoms of the earth. For evangelical truth in Matt., chs. 24 and 25, and Luke, ch. 18, and apostolic teaching in II Thess., ch. 2, and II Tim., chs. 3 and 4, present something quite different.
Originally posted by Slippery
As David Chilton would say, "Effeminate and Emasculated" :bigsmile: from Days of Vengeance.Originally posted by py3ak
Here is an interesting blog post claiming that because of Christ's coming we cannot sing the imprecatory Psalms, simpliciter. Any thoughts?
But on a serious tip, with sickos like Kim Jong Il, House of Saud, Al Qaeda, radical feminists and gays, statists liberals etc around. Only ignorant and foolish Christians don't pray imprecatory psalms.
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
When was the United States of America constituted the theocratic national people of God and charged with the duty of obliterating national enemies?
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
When was the United States of America constituted the theocratic national people of God and charged with the duty of obliterating national enemies?
January 20, 2001?
Sorry...couldn't resist. Carry on!
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
When was the United States of America constituted the theocratic national people of God and charged with the duty of obliterating national enemies?
January 20, 2001?
Sorry...couldn't resist. Carry on!
Originally posted by Scott
"Psalmody is a proclamation of Christ's Gospel as a corporate body."
That does not seem true for many psalms. The person shifts from first to second to third in many psalms, and some even appear more responsive, as a dialogue between parties.
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
The object of imprecation now is not the pagan across the street, but sin, the flesh, and the devil (and the reprobates - but only as a class since we don't know who they might be in any particular case).
Originally posted by armourbearer
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
The object of imprecation now is not the pagan across the street, but sin, the flesh, and the devil (and the reprobates - but only as a class since we don't know who they might be in any particular case).
Does this mean the minister cannot tell the pagan across the street that the wrath of God abides on him so long as he is outside of Christ? The apostle says this is to be without God and without hope in the world.
Yes, the imprecations should not be understood according to a nationalistic theocracy. We are Christians, not Jews. We understand the OT with the veil removed from our eyes, beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord. On that basis, all that the Psalms speak in malediction is true of those outside of Christ, as it was true for those outside of the theocratic kingdom of the time. They should not be spiritualised away.
[Edited on 10-13-2006 by armourbearer]