Judging...

[gordo]

Hey folks!

Is stating the obvious judging? Like saying someone has a drinking problem that is quite apparent (multiple DUI's and never without a drink in hand) or commenting that someone who has 42 'self portraits' on Facebook may be a bit vain? When trying to discern the difference, I couldn't really. Is judgment more something in a person's heart then mere words? Is judgment more assuming something that isn't so obvious? Or perhaps is it just looking at another persons faults while ignoring your own?

This question came to mind a few weeks ago when someone said something very obvious and then said "I shouldn't judge". I told them I don't think they are judging, but saying what is plain fact. They then asked me what was judging then. I couldn't really give them a good answer.

What do you guys think? It used to seem so obvious to me, but now it seems cloudy. I lean towards looking at anothers faults while ignoring your own like when Christ spoke about taking the log out of your own eye first before pointing at the log in anothers. Should a Christian just shut up and refrain from comments, even when it could be considered a plain fact? Perhaps refraining from judgment is simply being humble, even when seeing faults in others, knowing that you too are no better except for the mercies of Christ.

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[Quatchu]

I would agree, i think we are supposed to judge those things that are known. For instance if your Pastor in his sermon makes a very heretical statement, then i think we should judge he furthermore has made this public knowledge. I don't think we should judge those things we do not know, we should not judge another persons motives. I though this was a good treatment.

Critical Issues Commentary: Discernment in an Age of Deception: Defining the Believer's Biblical Call to Judge

 

[gordo]

Good points Justin. Thank you for the link. I will read it now.

 

[Tim]

It is worthwhile to remember that the well-known Biblical passage does not just say "judge not" and end there. Instead it goes further:

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Most people use this passage (or rather, the two words that they remember) to mean a complete prohibition on all forms of judgment in every circumstance. Yet, that is certainly not the case. Think of all the cases in scripture where we are to discern between good and evil.

Matthew Henry's concise commentary on Matthew 7:

We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones.

 

[Edward]

Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life.

 

[gordo]

It is worthwhile to remember that the well-known Biblical passage does not just say "judge not" and end there. Instead it goes further:

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Most people use this passage (or rather, the two words that they remember) to mean a complete prohibition on all forms of judgment in every circumstance. Yet, that is certainly not the case. Think of all the cases in scripture where we are to discern between good and evil.

Matthew Henry's concise commentary on Matthew 7:

We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones.

Excellent points Tim. Thank you.

I think my original thoughts for this thread came from what I find as many non-Christians like to tell Christians not to judge. When this is said to me I get defensive and say "I'm not judging" and then I think...am i? Perhaps what they remember from the bible is 'Judge not, lest ye be judged' and they run with it as if turning the tables on the Christian. But as you point out, there is way more to that verse when read in it's full context.

Thanks again. You guys have really shed the light on it and for that I am thankful!

 

[Tim]

many non-Christians like to tell Christians not to judge

When someone says that to you, just ask, "oh, do you think what I am doing is wrong?"

 

[Unoriginalname]

I think most of this has to do with the attitude. If you are saying that person has a drinking problem therefore I am better than them, that is approaching self righteousness. If you are saying that person has a bunch of DUIs he probably has a drinking problem you are just stating the obvious.

 

[gordo]

I think most of this has to do with the attitude. If you are saying that person has a drinking problem therefore I am better than them, that is approaching self righteousness. If you are saying that person has a bunch of DUIs he probably has a drinking problem you are just stating the obvious.

Makes good sense. Thanks for sharing. And as a person who used to struggle with alcohol I hope I would never look at a person with a drinking problem with any moral superiority. For by the grace of God, there go I.

 

[Tim]

If you are saying that person has a drinking problem therefore I am better than them, that is approaching self righteousness.

The challenge is that the mere statement "this or that is wrong" is interpreted by many as an expression of self-righteousness. We often need to go out of our way to insist that this is not the case.

 

[jwithnell]

Well said, Tim and Eric, all around. I was reading a sermon this morning regarding the sermon on the mount and believe it is applicable to this passage as well: It is a creed to the creedless. People like the sound of humility and meekness, but want to ignore the rest of the scriptures. People don't want to hear that what they do is offensive to a holy God. They don't want to believe there is a discernible right and wrong.

 

[Unoriginalname]

The challenge is that the mere statement "this or that is wrong" is interpreted by many as an expression of self-righteousness. We often need to go out of our way to insist that this is not the case.

Of course that is the case, but I think that is due to a mass ignorance of what the Lord is getting at in the passage. We inevitably make judgements about what different things mean. These evaluations of the world have nothing to due with Jesus' condemnation of judging. It is awful that church has adopted this lack of distinction between the different uses of the word judging.

 

[Zach]

I think one way to avoid the problem that Tim is getting at is to empathize in a very real way. We all have sin that we indulged in before we came to faith in Christ as well as sin that we do battle with as Christians. "I see you struggling with drinking and it reminds me of the way I struggle with pride/lust/anger/bitterness/etc." disarms any attempt to say that our judgment is a way to establish our own self righteousness. Too often I don't do this and I wish I did. It reminds me of the quote that Josh shares from Edwards about always viewing the sins of others as though they were our own because of our own sinfulness.

 

[gordo]

Well said Zach. The Edwards quote is so spot on.

 

[Wynteriii]

"Men in a corrupt and carnal frame,have their spiritual senses in but poor plight for judging and distinguishing spiritual things"

Johnathan Edwards A Treatise Concerning Religious Afflictions; 18th Century

I got this quote from The Complete Guide To Christian Quotations. It's alright except for the occasional wrong person to quote(Joyce Meyer,etc)

 

[jwithnell]

Johnathan Edwards A Treatise Concerning Religious Afflictions

Well worth reading the entire bookl

 

[J. Dean]

As already indicated, Jesus' words in Matthew 7 are in reference to hypocritical or rash judgment. I did a study on the word in that passage, and it's the Greek word "krino" (according to Strong's concordance) and it's basically the idea of passing sentence on somebody.

I think this is significant, because if I see somebody drinking to excess and I say to them "You are drinking in excess," that's an observation of facts, not a rash statement.

 

[BobVigneault]

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged" is a verse so often torn from context and used by folks to try and shame or humiliate believers for drawing a line between right and wrong behavior or good and bad morals. This sentiment actually attacks our Lords teaching to be discerning.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 "2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!"

John 7:24 24 "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Philippians 1:9-10 "9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ..."

Proverbs 3:21 "My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight"

Jeremiah 22:3 "This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right.

We are called on daily and even hourly to make judgments about good and bad, right and wrong, healthy and destructive behavior. We would be lousy parents if we did not judge behavior by what God values and not teach our children to do the same.

Jesus taught us in Matthew 7 that we cannot know who will and who will not have eternal life in Him and he clearly taught us that none of us are without sin. I quickly admit that I am chief of sinners and apart from Christ I am deservedly lost and that God would be perfectly just in sending me to Hell for eternity. I fall on His mercy and trust that Christ took my sins upon himself and 'clothed' me in His own righteousness.

Now in Christ, as a believer and a father, I have a duty to be discerning; I have the right and authority, based on God's Word,and in order that I might honor God's Word, to judge wrong, bad and destructive behavior.