Curt
Puritan Board Graduate
With some "preachers" anything over 5 minutes is harmful. I do not know of any evidence to support the claim that this is the case in all sermons longer than 30 minutes.
Length of Sermon
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With some "preachers" anything over 5 minutes is harmful. I do not know of any evidence to support the claim that this is the case in all sermons longer than 30 minutes.
JP Wallace
Puritan Board Sophomore
I think this is a difficult subject to handle. On one hand, yes our generation's 'attention span' is short, but so is their theological appetite depth (i.e Christian's). We should not pander to low/lazy expectations, neither should we assume or expect such a generation to be able to take and benefit from long/deep sermons, without training, prayer and hard work from we preachers'.
However I do think there is a limit to how deep a preacher can go, how much spiritual knowledge a man can impart in 20 mins or even 25 (please brother Boliver do not take that as a judgment on you or anyone else). The Apostle expresses a desire that God's people grow in their ability to digest strong meat and not merely drink milk and so I believe we should try and encourage and develop people's desire for the Word, and encoruage them to actively prepare to feed on the Word and to actively exert spiritual and physical energy in the listening to God's Word. (see Larger Catechism quoted above). (Heb 5:12-14)
I was recently preaching on 2 Samuel 24
2 Samuel 24:24 24 Then the king said to Araunah, "No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing." So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
One of the applications I made was that there is a 'cost' to faithful, acceptable, worship and one of them is to pay the cost of putting away our desires and wants in worship, to pay the cost of time and energy in preparation and participation for and in worship. This is something we should encourage in our congregations. We should not however expect them just to be that way. We also observe in Malachi that one of the reasons God is angry with Israel is their attitude towards worship.
Malachi 1:13-14 13 You also say, 'Oh, what a weariness!' And you sneer at it," Says the LORD of hosts. "And you bring the stolen, the lame, and the sick; Thus you bring an offering! Should I accept this from your hand?" Says the LORD. 14 "But cursed be the deceiver Who has in his flock a male, And takes a vow, But sacrifices to the Lord what is blemished -- For I am a great King," Says the LORD of hosts, "And My name is to be feared among the nations.
Let us encourage our people to fight such an attitude that finds listening to God's Word preached a weariness!
I would also wonder about something else. While acknowledging that the pulpit is not any competitor to Hollywood in any way, I do think there is a problem when our people can sit captivated by 2 hours of a movie, yet find 30 minutes of communion with God in His Word too much. Believe me, I include myself in the same criticism. My concern is that we should fight this because I think at core there is a spiritual problem in us where this is the case.
Also be sure I am not equating strong meat teaching to length, merely saying that there is a limit to how much strong meat can be served in a short time. I still think a ideal length is about 40 to 45 minutes.
I will usually aim at an interesting, introduction and/or recap of 5-8 minutes, a conclusion of 5 minutes or so (maybe less) with the core exposition and application of about 25 minutes.
I do think we should include our personality, ability, experience etc. in the assessment as well, as has already been noted.
However I do think there is a limit to how deep a preacher can go, how much spiritual knowledge a man can impart in 20 mins or even 25 (please brother Boliver do not take that as a judgment on you or anyone else). The Apostle expresses a desire that God's people grow in their ability to digest strong meat and not merely drink milk and so I believe we should try and encourage and develop people's desire for the Word, and encoruage them to actively prepare to feed on the Word and to actively exert spiritual and physical energy in the listening to God's Word. (see Larger Catechism quoted above). (Heb 5:12-14)
I was recently preaching on 2 Samuel 24
2 Samuel 24:24 24 Then the king said to Araunah, "No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing." So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
One of the applications I made was that there is a 'cost' to faithful, acceptable, worship and one of them is to pay the cost of putting away our desires and wants in worship, to pay the cost of time and energy in preparation and participation for and in worship. This is something we should encourage in our congregations. We should not however expect them just to be that way. We also observe in Malachi that one of the reasons God is angry with Israel is their attitude towards worship.
Malachi 1:13-14 13 You also say, 'Oh, what a weariness!' And you sneer at it," Says the LORD of hosts. "And you bring the stolen, the lame, and the sick; Thus you bring an offering! Should I accept this from your hand?" Says the LORD. 14 "But cursed be the deceiver Who has in his flock a male, And takes a vow, But sacrifices to the Lord what is blemished -- For I am a great King," Says the LORD of hosts, "And My name is to be feared among the nations.
Let us encourage our people to fight such an attitude that finds listening to God's Word preached a weariness!
I would also wonder about something else. While acknowledging that the pulpit is not any competitor to Hollywood in any way, I do think there is a problem when our people can sit captivated by 2 hours of a movie, yet find 30 minutes of communion with God in His Word too much. Believe me, I include myself in the same criticism. My concern is that we should fight this because I think at core there is a spiritual problem in us where this is the case.
Also be sure I am not equating strong meat teaching to length, merely saying that there is a limit to how much strong meat can be served in a short time. I still think a ideal length is about 40 to 45 minutes.
I will usually aim at an interesting, introduction and/or recap of 5-8 minutes, a conclusion of 5 minutes or so (maybe less) with the core exposition and application of about 25 minutes.
I do think we should include our personality, ability, experience etc. in the assessment as well, as has already been noted.
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reformedminister
Puritan Board Sophomore
Typically 35-40 minutes for me. I try to be sensitive to the congregation I preach to. There have been times that I have only preached half my sermon in thirty minutes and try to wrap it up into a conclusion rather than go over 45 minutes.
but3leftsdo
Puritan Board Freshman
Our pastor's last name is "Long", but he rarely lives up to it. Usually it's 25 to 35 minutes pretty consistently.
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
I am usually at the half-hour mark. There are 20 minute preachers and there are 45 minute preachers, and there are hour preachers (but I tend to think of these as rare). Limitations is one word that has been used in this thread. Another way of putting it would be "how long a preacher are you?" One needs to examine one's rhythm and cadence, speed of talking (for instance, Derek Thomas preaches 45 minutes, but the raw word count might be the same as that of someone who speaks more quickly; Derek likes the weight of pauses between sentences), and yes, the needs and customs of the congregation (although the word about "stretching" is very needful here). Like someone else on this thread has already said, though, concentrate on making your message unified, coherent, and lively, and the length will be what it needs to be. I found T. David Gordon's book Why Johnny Can't Preach to be an enormously helpful book (even though it is difficult to recommend it to preachers on account of the possibly offensive title!).
MightyManfred
Puritan Board Freshman
Why Johnny Can't Preach is on the list of books we (men in our elder training program) must read during year two. I recently read the author's Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns and found it most helpful - and convicting.
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
The constant struggle is to preach long enough to be clear and drive the point home as well as possible. The constant struggle is to resist including information that is edifying in the study but not in the sermon. A good sermon is just as much about what is kept out of it as it is about what's in it.
When I first started preaching I felt like I had to include a vast amount of information with each message. Some were good. But some were tedious as well. More recently my challenge seems to be at the other end of the spectrum. I have been preaching generally shorter messages but I may be including too much information that might be better left out so that I could condense a 5 message series into 3 messages. And no sermon is complete until it's been preached. Even then, I've only preached a couple of sermons that, when I was done, I was satisfied with.
Our congregation is very knowledgeable about Scripture and doctrine, so I have freedoms many don't enjoy. Sometimes I dig into the passage and speak on a more academic level because I know that almost all of them understand what I'm talking about. With our small congregation, if there is a visitor I'll often make sure to explain things in a way that isn't always necessary with our group.
My shortest sermon is probably around 30 minutes, and I have gone over an hour. I've preached 30 minutes that felt like 2 hours before, and I've preached over an hour before and it felt like 20 minutes. I've seen people fall asleep during the message and I've had people tell me that the 55 minute message I just preached seemed awfully short. I've even had a couple of sermons that I almost fell asleep during. Preaching is a dynamic two-way communication in which only one person speaks.
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21
When I first started preaching I felt like I had to include a vast amount of information with each message. Some were good. But some were tedious as well. More recently my challenge seems to be at the other end of the spectrum. I have been preaching generally shorter messages but I may be including too much information that might be better left out so that I could condense a 5 message series into 3 messages. And no sermon is complete until it's been preached. Even then, I've only preached a couple of sermons that, when I was done, I was satisfied with.
Our congregation is very knowledgeable about Scripture and doctrine, so I have freedoms many don't enjoy. Sometimes I dig into the passage and speak on a more academic level because I know that almost all of them understand what I'm talking about. With our small congregation, if there is a visitor I'll often make sure to explain things in a way that isn't always necessary with our group.
My shortest sermon is probably around 30 minutes, and I have gone over an hour. I've preached 30 minutes that felt like 2 hours before, and I've preached over an hour before and it felt like 20 minutes. I've seen people fall asleep during the message and I've had people tell me that the 55 minute message I just preached seemed awfully short. I've even had a couple of sermons that I almost fell asleep during. Preaching is a dynamic two-way communication in which only one person speaks.
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21
MightyManfred
Puritan Board Freshman
Austin - I've had the same experience, and discovered that when a man is preaching the Word of God, I stay tuned in and want more. When he is using the Word of God as a prop for talk about X, I want to beat the Methodists to the BBQ joint.
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Our pastor preaches 25-35 minutes depending on whether or not we have communion. He used to be concerned when the sermons got a little too long, but I think several of us have finally convinced him that it's OK to go a little longer when he needs to make a point. It's been a real pleasure to sit under a pastor who is good enough that I rarely notice the time pass, and if I hadn't asked him once how long the sermons went, I wouldn't even know.
When I was a teenager, I sat under a pastor who preached for 45-60 minutes every Sunday morning, and then preached another 35-45 minutes on Sunday evening. Someone mentioned the expository approach for longer sermons. I don't think this pastor ever preached a thematic sermon. He always went through a passage verse by verse. This was a Baptist church, but the pastor's background was Dutch Reformed, and even though I didn't always agree with his interpretation, I have not since sat under a preacher who was more thorough.
When I was a teenager, I sat under a pastor who preached for 45-60 minutes every Sunday morning, and then preached another 35-45 minutes on Sunday evening. Someone mentioned the expository approach for longer sermons. I don't think this pastor ever preached a thematic sermon. He always went through a passage verse by verse. This was a Baptist church, but the pastor's background was Dutch Reformed, and even though I didn't always agree with his interpretation, I have not since sat under a preacher who was more thorough.
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