Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Tomorrow I have to lecture on the drunkenness of Noah, so I should drink enough this evening to be able to talk about that wickedness as one who knows by experience.
LW 54, no. 3476
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Tomorrow I have to lecture on the drunkenness of Noah, so I should drink enough this evening to be able to talk about that wickedness as one who knows by experience.
How could you outdo a German, dear Cordatus, except by making him drunk--especially a German who does not love music and women?
Was the drunkeness of Noah sin?Yeah, if he was sincere and serious, such is neither exemplary nor commendable. Alas! that residue of indwelling sin is a vexation that shall follow us until glory. Thanks be to God for imputed righteousness and His perfect law which shuts us up to faith in Christ.
Gen 6:8-9 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. (9) These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.
The only thing I see addressed as sin in that event was Ham's behavior, so if Luther were to get as drunk as Noah, is it necessarily sinful?Gen 9:20-25 Noah began to be a man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. (21) He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. (22) And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside. (23) Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father's nakedness. (24) When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, (25) he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers."
Being reluctant to violate the ninth commandment by determining something of Noah that is not necessarily required by the text, could we charitably assume it means he was tipsy, and incidentally forgot to pull his blanket over himself? Or is there other scriptural warrant to ascribe a higher level of inebriation to our spiritual and biological ancestor?שׁכר
shâkar
shaw-kar'
A primitive root; to become tipsy; in a qualified sense, to satiate with a stimulating drink or (figuratively) influence. (Superlative of H8248.): - (be filled with) drink (abundantly), (be, make) drunk (-en), be merry.
I don't know, but Mindy liked it!This is a fine quotation, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand."Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?" - Martin Luther
Being reluctant to violate the ninth commandment by determining something of Noah that is not necessarily required by the text, could we charitably assume it means he was tipsy, and incidentally forgot to pull his blanket over himself? Or is there other scriptural warrant to ascribe a higher level of inebriation to our spiritual and biological ancestor?
But Josh, where is the implication that Noah's location was one that other folks would likely to be going? He was in his tent. Might that not be the equivalent of our modern bedrooms, a place normally not to be entered but by invitation? Would it not be proper to assume that Ham was the one who was doing wrong in a prohibited place?I would say that 'tipsy' is not rising to the level of perfection required in the 7th Commandment which is "chastity in . . . body . . . and behavior," as well as "temperance." Falling asleep naked in a place where other folks are likely to be going is not a measure of sobriety. Noah's nudity was also a provocation to Ham's sin. It is, however, Ham's wrongdoing that is the focus of the passage.
Sorry, JM, I understand now why you put this here. It's in the "Quotes Forum" and the title of the thread was "Luther on Drinking," so now I understand why you put it here.This is a fine quotation, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand."Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?" - Martin Luther
The Scripture says that he drank then was drunken, and there's no commendation of drunkenness (the state of being drunken) anywhere in Scripture.
It also proves that Luther believed drunkenness is a sin, if there was any question whether he was joking in the first quote.
Ah! But yeast was created on the third day!!! So, Noah was totally familiar with, at least, the concept of drunkenness. Let's not play the "Dinah was raped" card!
Sure, and I do not mean to imply that it was Noah's intention to get drunk, but ignorance or "not meaning to" never clears us from guilt when it comes to God's Law.austinww; said:. . . but I think it is within the realm of possibility that Noah did not know he would become drunk.
Keep tryin' Austin
And in the mean time, make sure you get a vacation
Further, how did he know what a vineyard was and what it produced?
Whoa, Austin! Are you going through Owensboro?
Tomorrow I have to lecture on the drunkenness of Noah, so I should drink enough this evening to be able to talk about that wickedness as one who knows by experience.
LW 54, no. 3476