Panic Attacks

[blhowes]

I have a friend who suffers from occasional (maybe once or twice/year) panic attacks. Have any of you ever experienced this or know of anybody who has? Any idea about causes, cures, and how to help them deal with it during the attack?

 

[Scot]

My experience and understanding of this (although usually not accepted or looked at by the medical community) is a blood sugar problem. Blood sugar drops, the brain doesn't get the right amount of glucose and the person can experience, panick attacks, depression, anxiety, etc.

I bet his diet is poor.

I'd suggest he try a hypoglycemic diet and start supplementing with Omega 3's (found in flaxseed oil).

My

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Scot]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Well, here's my 2 cents:

This is bringing us back to the thread on schizophrenia and if it is spiritual or physical. Scenario: Before I was saved, I had a fear of death. In my early 20's I suffered from a rythymn disturbance in the electrical system of my heart which subsequently brought on full blown atrial fibrillation. I went to the ER and they prescribed various medicines. These medicines subsequently connverted me back to a normal (sinus) rythymn. I have been hospitalized about a half dozen times since, the last time 3 mos ago. Before I was saved, I noticed that if I had palpatations, they would bring on an anxiety attack. The anxiety attack would bring on the a-fib as when you have anxiety, the body releases adrenalin, adrenalin is like throwing gas on the fire in regards to my condition. After I was saved, I had to really pray about what was going on in my mind. It turns out that what one of the components were, was my fear of dying. As I stayed in the WORD, the fear was diminsihed and eventually removed. I have not had an anxiety attack since (years).

What I tell all the patients I have come in contact with who have this disorder is, What is at the root of your panic? Think hard; be honest. Is it that you ultimately think that you are baout to die? Most answers are 'yes'. If the person is a believer, I exhort them to seek Gods word for resolution. If this doesn't work, there are medicines that help, i.e. prozac, Effexor.

Scot: I agree. Diet is an option. However, diabetes is measurable. Check with your physician to rule out something physical or chemical.

 

[blhowes]

Scot(t) with one and two t's,
Thanks for your insights and advice.
Bob

 

[Scot]

Scot: I agree. Diet is an option. However, diabetes is measurable. Check with your physician to rule out something physical or chemical.

Many possibilities. Here's one that I found interesting that is not usually looked at. It's not specifically on panick attacks but that's also mentioned in the article. I could also post this on the schizophrenia thread. My main point would be that if it's physical it has to be that he's either lacking something or getting too much of something in his diet (or both). He's not suffering from a prozac deficiency.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Scot

Scot: I agree. Diet is an option. However, diabetes is measurable. Check with your physician to rule out something physical or chemical.

Many possibilities. Here's one that I found interesting that is not usually looked at. It's not specifically on panick attacks but that's also mentioned in the article. I could also post this on the schizophrenia thread. My main point would be that if it's physical it has to be that he's either lacking something or getting too much of something in his diet (or both). He's not suffering from a prozac deficiency.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html

Disease is secondary to the fall. The fall brought on flaws in the genetic strand. medicines or therapy are like *spackle, they fill in the gaps that are in the genetic strand. In my case, it is *spackle for my heart.

*http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/SPACKLE

 

[ChristianasJourney]

Is a panic attack the same thing as an anxiety attack?

I have a friend who suffered from anxiety attacks, and she found that as soon as she identified the problem--the cause of the attack it went away. For example: She had several children and therefore couldn't keep a perfect house. When her in-laws came over she used to have an anxiety attack. Then she realized that it was because her MIL was coming (MIL is a fastedious housekeeper) as soon as she recognized the cause she was able to solve the problem (clean the kitchen), or reason herself out of it (her MIL really didn't care.)

 

[ReformedWretch]

I get them on rare ocasions in HUGE crowds in small areas. It is not any certain fear, it's just a dizziness and heat flashes.

FOr example, I can attend a Penn State game and be in a stadium of 106,000 people with no problem. But, if I go into the Collage bookstore with 1500 people I feel like I am goning to pass out.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by ChristianasJourney
Is a panic attack the same thing as an anxiety attack?

yes, it's the same thing.

It's usually caused by stress, fear, and/or a feeling of having no control. You're heart starts racing due to the cause (be it physical or mental), and then you fear there's something wrong (maybe with your heart), then you may start to get chest pain, or start hyperventilating, and it's all a spiral downhill after that. At least that was the most common scenario I saw with my anxiety attack patients.

Hopefully, as Christians we should be able beat this at the very beginning because we have nothing to be afraid of. God works all things for our good and is always with us, even if we have serious medical problems.

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by puritansailor]

 

[ReformedWretch]

a feeling of having no control.

That may be my issue on the rare ocassions that I have them. But, in my opinion I think it may actually be frustration on a big scale.

 

[ChristianasJourney]

Control...Do we ever HAVE control???

PSailor, that is what my friend had a problem with, and the symptoms went away when she started identifying the specific "fears" that were causing it.

It reminds me of dreams I used to have about driving, or horseback riding, neither of which I'd ever done, and so my dreams were all skewed, without a sense of perspective, but as soon as I actually started driving, and rode a horse, it was as if my brain understood how these things were supposed to work.

 

[ReformedWretch]

We don't ever have control, no. But if I am in a small area with a HUGE crowd and cannot even control my motion speed, direction, etc. that's taking away a good bit. I'm working on getting over it, but it's tough sometimes.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Adam,
Seriously, is it fear?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by ChristianasJourney
Control...Do we ever HAVE control???

Ultimately no. But it should be a comfort and relief to know that God is in control. The unbeliever has no such comfort.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Adam,
Seriously, is it fear?

I dunno...

I feel ANGRY. You ever see the incredible Hulk TV show? Well, that's what I feel like is going to happen to me, but instead I get dizzy and slightly sick feeling.

Please take note, this is very rare as I do not go to overly crowded places. As I said, it has to be a small place that is packed. Not a big place that is packed like Beaver Stadium.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Adam,
http://pages.infinit.net/drnayman/agorapho.htm

 

[ReformedWretch]

That's intresting Scott! I may have a touch of that.

Crowded highways, packed movie theatres. theme parks (especially water parks), and places that are so full you are literally single file and bumping one another make me feel this way.

Some become restricted or "housebound" while others function "normally" but with great difficulty, often attempting to hide their discomfort.

Yep!

I am not "housebound" but I do try and avoid the things that annoy me in this way. When I can't I do try to hide my discomfort.

 

[Scot]

Originally posted by Scott Bushy

Disease is secondary to the fall. The fall brought on flaws in the genetic strand. medicines or therapy are like *spackle, they fill in the gaps that are in the genetic strand. In my case, it is *spackle for my heart.

Scott,

I agree that disease is secondary to the fall. I also agree that we have genetic flaws. My point is that we should try everything in our power to strenghten these weakness naturally before resorting to drugs which do not strenghten the body but interfere with it's functioning and only "mask" the underlying problem.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that drugs do have thier place. In most cases, I believe that they should be reserved for emergencies or used until the underlying problem is found. We've gotten to the point that no matter what problem a person is experiencing, they are automatically placed on a drug. This should be a last resort.

Here are some "for instances" that I've personally seen among family, friends and myself (I'll leave out my clients).

Since the time that I was an infant, I suffered from severe leg cramps then later, starting in my teenage years, severe headaches (everyday). The md's knew nothing but pain killers. Five years ago, I decided to go to a chiropractor. He discovered that my pelvis was twisted and my neck was out of place. After two weeks of adjustments, both my leg cramps and headaches went away. I no longer get leg cramps or headaches. If I kept taking the advice of the md's, I'd still be on painkillers, which were unnecessary. I didn't have a painkiller deficiency.

My mother-in-law used to suffer from severe acid reflux and also had high blood pressure. She was on diuretics and Nexium (which her doctor told her she'd have to take for the rest of her life). After taking the advice of myself (and the pestering of my wife) she went and had a hiatal hernia manuever performed (a manuever that's done from the outside of the body that pulls the stomach back into position). That was two years ago and she hasn't had to take her Nexium since. The problem was fixed. She also had her neck adjusted. After the adjustment her blood pressure normalized. She wasn't suffering from a diuretic or Nexium deficiency.

My mother (who is a nurse) was on hormone replacement for twenty years (she had her ovaries removed). She was constantly being switched from one drug to another. At one point, she was actually admitted into a home because she was literally "out of her mind." About 3-4 years ago, I finally convinced her to move into more natural forms of healing (this took awhile since she is trained medically). Anyway, her diet is now different, she uses natural progesterone, she took herself of of her meds and she hasn't needed so much as an aspirin for 3 years.

My grandfather suffers from heart disease. He had a bypass about 12 years ago. Since then he has become a vegetarian and takes many supplements for the heart. After a year or so on the program, his doctor was able to get him off some of his meds and reduce the dosage of others. The doctor was so impressed that he's now also on the program that my grandfather is on.

My wife would occasionally get "heart flutters." Just recently I had her start supplementing with magnesium. Her heart doesn't flutter as long as she taking the magnesium. She's not suffering from drug dieficiency. She has a magnesium deficiency. Granted, she's taking something for her "weakness" but it has no side effects and will not harm her like a drug would.

There's a lady that lives about 10 miles or so from me named Glenda. 3 years ago she was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. She was scheduled for surgery and told she would die without it. In the meantime, before the surgery, she went on an all natural diet and many anti-cancer supplements. She was doing so well that she cancelled her surgery. To make a long story short, she actually has her tumors preserved in a jar (I KID YOU NOT). She saved them to prove to people that she beat cancer without any medical intervention. The tumors fell off. She didn't have cancer because of a chemo deficiency.

These are just a few of the things that I've seen happen when people take control of their health and don't depend on drugs for the answer. Like I said, they have their place but they are very often overused for things that could improve or be fixed by natural means.

Why not use natural means as the "spackle" before resorting to drugs?

 

[Augusta]

I have Grave's disease which is an over-active thyroid. Your thyroid controls lots of things in your body. I have never been a worrier but my heart would beat rapidly sometimes and I would get this feeling in my chest like when you've been startled. I would think to myself what is the matter because these wouldn't be brought on by any specific thing. I later found out my thyroid was just releasing all these chemicals telling my heart to beat faster and dumping adrenalin etc just arbitrarily. Now that it is fixed with meds I don't have this problem as much but sometimes I still get this startled feeling in my chest and it doesn't wane fast like when you are truly startled, it just sticks around for about a half hour. The guy could have a dysfunctional thyroid. Your pituitary gland gives out chemicals based on what your thyroid is doing and if your thyroid is dysfunctional it can cause all kinds of problems.

Houseparent, I have a vestibular problem (balance system in your inner ear) that causes dizziness and nausea. Crowds are a common trigger for people with this issue. It's not only the noise but not having a good field of vision of the horizon, both of which help you balance, can cause dizziness and nausea. The particular one I have is called Meniere's. Just for FYI here is a website with a list of symptoms. It will help you understand why this happens to you on a physical level if in fact this is what is going on.

 

[ReformedWretch]

In addition, people with vestibular disorders may suffer headache and muscular aches in the neck and back, increased tendency to suffer from motion sickness, and increased sensitivity to noise and bright lights. Patients with vestibular disorders often report fatigue and loss of stamina and an inability to concentrate. Difficulty with reading and speech may occur during times of fatigue. When these symptoms are constant and disabling, they may be accompanied by irritability, loss of self-esteem, and/or depression.

Wow! Now I don't know which one I may have as that sounds much like I feel at those times as well!

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Scot

Originally posted by Scott Bushy

Disease is secondary to the fall. The fall brought on flaws in the genetic strand. medicines or therapy are like *spackle, they fill in the gaps that are in the genetic strand. In my case, it is *spackle for my heart.

Scott,
I agree that disease is secondary to the fall. I also agree that we have genetic flaws. My point is that we should try everything in our power to strenghten these weakness naturally before resorting to drugs which do not strenghten the body but interfere with it's functioning and only "mask" the underlying problem.

Opinion. Medicines do not necessarily 'mask' or make the body 'weak'. Many medicines increase strength and efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that drugs do have thier place. In most cases, I believe that they should be reserved for emergencies or used until the underlying problem is found.

Thats the goal. In the best interest of the patient, sometimes, time is of the essence.

We've gotten to the point that no matter what problem a person is experiencing, they are automatically placed on a drug. This should be a last resort.

Doctors generally prescribe diet changes, exercise, etc. first.

Here are some "for instances" that I've personally seen among family, friends and myself (I'll leave out my clients).

Since the time that I was an infant, I suffered from severe leg cramps then later, starting in my teenage years, severe headaches (everyday). The md's knew nothing but pain killers. Five years ago, I decided to go to a chiropractor. He discovered that my pelvis was twisted and my neck was out of place. After two weeks of adjustments, both my leg cramps and headaches went away. I no longer get leg cramps or headaches. If I kept taking the advice of the md's, I'd still be on painkillers, which were unnecessary. I didn't have a painkiller deficiency.

My mother-in-law used to suffer from severe acid reflux and also had high blood pressure. She was on diuretics and Nexium (which her doctor told her she'd have to take for the rest of her life). After taking the advice of myself (and the pestering of my wife) she went and had a hiatal hernia manuever performed (a manuever that's done from the outside of the body that pulls the stomach back into position). That was two years ago and she hasn't had to take her Nexium since. The problem was fixed. She also had her neck adjusted. After the adjustment her blood pressure normalized. She wasn't suffering from a diuretic or Nexium deficiency.

You;re telling me that your mother in-law was able to come off her blood pressure medicine after haveing a chiropractic adjustment?

My wife would occasionally get "heart flutters." Just recently I had her start supplementing with magnesium. Her heart doesn't flutter as long as she taking the magnesium. She's not suffering from drug dieficiency. She has a magnesium deficiency. Granted, she's taking something for her "weakness" but it has no side effects and will not harm her like a drug would

How did you come to this conclusion, that she had a mag deficiency?

 

[Scot]

sorry, messed up this post

[Edited on 10-1-2005 by Scot]

 

[Scot]

Opinion. Medicines do not necessarily 'mask' or make the body 'weak'. Many medicines increase strength and efficiency.

Fact. All medicines are toxic to the body. Why do they all carry side effects? Even the drug companies understand that the body will try to get rid of the drug. That's why many drugs are made to interfere with liver detoxification. So the drug stays in the body longer to do it's job. The liver trys to get rid of it because it's poison.

Name one drug besides antibiotics that actually cure a disease or fix a health problem. I have alot of colleagues who would be amazed to find one. All I've ever seen them do is "mask" symptoms.

Thats the goal. In the best interest of the patient, sometimes, time is of the essence.

I understand that and I'm not saying medical doctors don't have the patients best interest in mind. Have you ever heard the saying "When someone has a hammer, they see all problems as nails?" MD's are trained in what drug covers what symptom. They're very rarely trained to look into alternatives.

You are right, sometimes time is of the essence. This is were drugs would be properly used.

Doctors generally prescribe diet changes, exercise, etc. first.

Again, they're hardly trained at all in nutrition. They even tell people to take tums for extra calcium!

Here's an example of a person that I saw a few months ago. He came to me and he was on high blood pressure meds, a cholesterol drug, and something from the dermatologist for itchy skin. I had him fill out some papers and found out that he was drinking at least 10 cups of coffee a day. I told him that he could lower his blood pressure by cutting out all the coffee. He was also eating meat at every meal (like bologna, sausage, etc.). I told him to cut down on all the meat to lower his cholesterol. The doctor NEVER mentioned anything about diet. The guy was just put on the meds. Then I looked up his blood pressure med and one of the side effects was itchy skin! The doctor never told him this either. The guy started having itchy forearms and his doctor sent him to the dermatologist and the poor guy was put on another med. All of this and all the guy had to do was cut down on the coffee and meat.

You;re telling me that your mother in-law was able to come off her blood pressure medicine after haveing a chiropractic adjustment?

Yes. I'm not saying that's the cause for all cases of high blood pressure but if there's pressure on the nerve that leads to the heart muscle this can cause high/low blood pressure. The brain runs the body by electricity. If there's interference, that organ will not work as it should. Kinda like a dimmer switch on a light. We can see an extreme case when we look at Christopher Reeves. The electricity was completely cut off in his case.

How did you come to this conclusion, that she had a mag deficiency?

Alot of heart problems (not all) are caused by magnesium deficiency. Magnesium is an important mineral needed for heart function. Minerals conduct and generate electrical impulses in the body. Without these impulses not a single muscle would be able to function. I didn't know if that was her problem for sure but when she told me about it, I brought some mag home from my office and told her to start taking it. When she ran out, they (the flutters) started again. As long as she takes it , she's o.k.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Scot

Opinion. Medicines do not necessarily 'mask' or make the body 'weak'. Many medicines increase strength and efficiency.

Fact. All medicines are toxic to the body.

This is solely opinion. You cannot prove this. Please show me your proof. The fact is, not all medicines are toxic. Many homeopathics are toxic, i.e. foxglove, belladona, sodium, pottasium, magnesium, tea tree oil.

Why do they all carry side effects?

Mega dosing of naturals can kill you also.

Even the drug companies understand that the body will try to get rid of the drug.

The liver does the same thing with many homeopathics.

That's why many drugs are made to interfere with liver detoxification. So the drug stays in the body longer to do it's job. The liver trys to get rid of it because it's poison.

This is new to me. Example?

Name one drug besides antibiotics that actually cure a disease or fix a health problem.

Define 'fix'?

I have alot of colleagues who would be amazed to find one. All I've ever seen them do is "mask" symptoms.

Define 'mask'?

MD's are trained in what drug covers what symptom. They're very rarely trained to look into alternatives.

I know plenty of osteopaths whom use alternative medicine.

They're hardly trained at all in nutrition. They even tell people to take tums for extra calcium!

In this case, patients are farmed out to the dieticians......

Here's an example of a person that I saw a few months ago. He came to me and he was on high blood pressure meds, a cholesterol drug, and something from the dermatologist for itchy skin. I had him fill out some papers and found out that he was drinking at least 10 cups of coffee a day. I told him that he could lower his blood pressure by cutting out all the coffee. He was also eating meat at every meal (like bologna, sausage, etc.). I told him to cut down on all the meat to lower his cholesterol. The doctor NEVER mentioned anything about diet.

I've heard this before from the patient. They are either too old to remember, or they are lying. I have never met a doctor who would not first take a full history and physical and implement the obvious......

The guy was just put on the meds. Then I looked up his blood pressure med and one of the side effects was itchy skin! The doctor never told him this either.

We never tell the patient "side effects". In fact, I tell themspecifically to NOT read the flyers that come along with their meds. Psychosomaticism would prevail; hal;f the patients are generally nutty. They'd get everything!

Alot of heart problems (not all) are caused by magnesium deficiency. Magnesium is an important mineral needed for heart function. Minerals conduct and generate electrical impulses in the body. Without these impulses not a single muscle would be able to function. I didn't know if that was her problem for sure but when she told me about it, I brought some mag home from my office and told her to start taking it. When she ran out, they (the flutters) started again. As long as she takes it , she's o.k.

Mag deficiencies are measurable, as is pottasium. There is where you play with fire. Without frist establishing a baseline, you could be over medicating the patient and throw them into a full blown arrythmia or even heart failure.

Bottom line: The homeopathic industry can be beneficial. The health food industry in my opinion is a ship without a captain. There are no standardizations and they are not federally controlled as medicines are.

 

[Scot]

This is solely opinion. You cannot prove this. Please show me the proof. The fact is, not all medicines are toxic.

Maybe our definitions of "toxic" are different. When you eat an orange, you get God given vitamin c that the body can use for different functions. When you take a man made chemical (pharmacueticals) that our bodies are not meant to ingest, the body tries to get rid of it. It's not compatible with how we are made. I don't mean "toxic" in the sense that it's enough to kill you, but it is a foreign man made substance not found in nature.

Mega dosing on naturals can killl you also

Mega dosing on anything can kill you. A regular prescribed dosage of some drugs can kill you. Compare the deaths last year of pharmacuetical drugs to natural remedies. (let's just look at Vioxx)

This is new to me. Example?

I don't have all my books handy and I don't have all this stuff memorized but I'm thinking Tagament interferes with liver detoxification.

Define 'fix' Define 'mask'

Take the examples I posted above of family members. My mother-in-law's Nexium "masked" her underlying problem. The hiatal hernia maneuver "fixed" the preoblem. (as a side note, years on nexium interfering with her digestion caused her knees to go bad - if you're taking an acid blocker, you're not absorbing nutrients like you should - calcium, etc.)

I know plenty of osteopaths whom use alternative medicine

They have their feet wet. Most need to dive the rest of the way in.

In this case, patients are farmed out to the dieticians......

What I call "corporate nutrition"

We never tell the patient "side effects".

Then they think that they're developing more problems, not realizing that it's the meds that they're on. Then another med is given to cover the side effects of the first and so on.

Mag deficiencies are measurable, as is pattasium. Ther is where you play with fire. Without frist establishing a baseline, you could be over medicating the patient and throw them into a full blown arrythmia or even heart failure.

Testing for minerals is generally not very accurate. The body must maintain homeostasis. If the body's pH is off then the body will rob minerals from the cells in order to maintain a proper pH level in the blood. The test can come up as normal but the cells themselves can be deficient.

Bottom line: The homeopathic industry can be beneficial. The health food industry in my opinion is a ship without a captain. There are no standardizations and they are not federally controlled as medicines are

You're right to a certain extent about the health food industry. That is why I only carry certified, pharmacuetical grade supplements at my office. Alot of supplements are garbage (especially the ones recommended by most md's e.g. centrum). I purchase my supplements from a facility that is FDA approved and could actually manufacture pharmacuetical drugs if they chose to. That still doesn't mean that I want the industry federally controlled. Then the pharamceutical industry would make sure that we hardly got access to them.

My bottom line: The medical community shines in emergency situations and has much benefit in those instances. Drugs should only be used until the underlying problem is found and corrected. The md's are not taught how to do this for the most part. Natural remedies are not utilized because they would cut into the profit of the pharmaceutical industry. Which makes more money, puttong someone on Nexium for life/ or correcting the underlying problem so they don't have to take anything?

We're obviously from two different schools here. We do, however, agree about the spiritual side of the original post. I feel that's more important.

Here's an article if you're interested. It pretty much sums up how I feel about the medical system. I don't know the author personally but have worked with people that do.

WARNING: His theology is bad and I don't agree with all that is said in the article. For the most part, I agree with him.

http://www.godsherbs.com/Test/html/Popups/letter.htm

[Edited on 11-1-2005 by Scot]