Pastors Tithing

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J.L. Allen

J.L. Allen

Puritan Board Sophomore
Pastors, how do you tithe? Do you give at the church you pastor? Do you give to certain funds there? Do you give elsewhere?

While we're at it, do you give each Lord's Day?
 
I give monthly, as I'm paid monthly, to a mission work that our church oversees.
 
[Not a pastor] But the OPC's Book of Church Order II.B.4 seems to assert that giving of offerings is an act of worship which all should participate in, and that giving outside of the formal ministries of your church is to be avoided.
 
JD said:
[Not a pastor] But the OPC's Book of Church Order II.B.4 seems to assert that giving of offerings is an act of worship which all should participate in, and that giving outside of the formal ministries of your church is to be avoided.
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JD, thanks for your feedback. I looked over the OPC BCO. As I read it, and I'm willing to be corrected, there seems to be a broader use of the word "Church." It appears capitalized, which typically indicates a broader use (denominational).
 
It seems strange to me to not financially support my local church... especially if I'm an elder there. This would certainly be frowned upon in my circles, and I think, rightly so. If we call our members to worship the Lord through financial offerings to him in the local church, why would we ourselves not participate?

Most Baptist membership covenants will echo ours... "we engage... to contribute regularly and proportionately as the Lord prospers us, to the support of its (this church's) ministry and general expenses, the relief of the poor and the spread of the Gospel at home and abroad."

As all members (including elders) are required to sign this covenant, it is obviously expected that we live in accordance to it. Again, I can only speak to "My circles", but I expect most Baptist churches would have similar covenant statements and similar expectations.
 
When I am Pastoring I give at the church I am Pastoring at I think that's a good idea because you are giving back where you are provided for.
 
I always assumed all ministers tithed to their own local churches. I confess to hear this isn't common practice seems odd.
 
J.L. Allen said:
JD, thanks for your feedback. I looked over the OPC BCO. As I read it, and I'm willing to be corrected, there seems to be a broader use of the word "Church." It appears capitalized, which typically indicates a broader use (denominational).
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For everyone's reference:

4. The Bringing of Offerings​
​
a. The bringing of offerings in the public assembly of God's people on the Lord's Day is a solemn act of worship to almighty God. The people of God are to set aside to him the firstfruits of their labors; in so doing, they should present themselves with thanksgiving as a living sacrifice to God. All should participate in this act of worship when God gives opportunity for it. Parents are to instruct and encourage their children by precept and example to give of their substance regularly, purposefully, generously, and joyfully to the Lord through his church.​
​
b. It is the duty of the pastor, since he is to proclaim to the people the whole counsel of God, to cultivate biblical stewardship and the grace of liberal giving in the members of the church. He should remind them of the admonition in Scripture that everyone is to give as the Lord has prospered him, of the assurance of Scripture that God loves a cheerful giver, and of the blessed example of the Lord Jesus Christ, who, though he was rich, became poor, in order that poor sinners through his poverty might become rich.​
​
c. The session shall take care that the offerings of the congregation are used only for biblical purposes, such as the maintenance of public worship, the preaching of the gospel throughout the world, the ministry of mercy in Christ's name, and other Christian objects. The offering ordinarily should not be used to transmit funds to causes other than the ministries of the Church. If a member of the Church designates a gift to a particular cause, it shall be the responsibility of the session to determine, before the gift is accepted, if it is appropriate to support that cause through the Church or if the gift should be returned to the donor.​
​
d. It is desirable that Christian love be demonstrated by offerings for the use of the deacons in the ministry of mercy on behalf of the church. It is appropriate that a special offering be received for this purpose following the Lord's Supper.​

You might be correct about the broader use of "Church" in the section, but nonetheless it seems to me that all offerings are funnelled (as it were) through the session, whose job it is to steward the funds faithfully. A pastor is a participant in corporate worship if not a member of the particular church, and as God gives him oppurtunity to give he should do so at the appointed time in the service. If he wants his offering to go elsewhere other than the ministries of his particular church, it seems like that would be a choice requiring approval from the session.
 
I think it's hard to be an example to the flock in joyful, generous, and sacrificial giving if we're not giving to the work of the local church. Not to mention that it can make our pastoral encouragements to give seem self-serving if we're not sharing in the duty.
 
For the record, I'm not advocating not tithing to the church you serve. I have heard about other practices, and so I seek to understand that.
 
Yes. We as a family tithe to our local church. Any other ministries and missions etc. would be on top of that.
 
J.L. Allen said:
Thank you for the feedback. What would you do if that mission work were not an option?
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Give it to the church under a different designation. We support a local mission work, and provide some assistance to churches we're aware of in Venezuela and Mexico, as well as routinely supporting theological education in the Philippines so there are a number of avenues. It's not a principle with me, but it just seems odd to have a proportion of my giving be for my own support.
 
May be slightly off topic, but I wanted to stop in to say that financial giving should absolutely not be viewed as part of worship. For a number of reasons.
 
Parakaleo said:
May be slightly off topic, but I wanted to stop in to say that financial giving should absolutely not be viewed as part of worship. For a number of reasons.
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It is off topic. However, I encourage you start another thread to bring those reasons to the forefront. Sounds interesting.
 
py3ak said:
Give it to the church under a different designation. We support a local mission work, and provide some assistance to churches we're aware of in Venezuela and Mexico, as well as routinely supporting theological education in the Philippines so there are a number of avenues. It's not a principle with me, but it just seems odd to have a proportion of my giving be for my own support.
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Thank you for explaining. I appreciate how targeted your giving is.
 
J.L. Allen said:
It is off topic. However, I encourage you start another thread to bring those reasons to the forefront. Sounds interesting.
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In my judgment, it is only partially off topic since some here have implied that a pastor would want to bring financial gifts to the church as an act of worship. It's pretty jarring to think that financial gifts (our livelihood, our life) should be brought to God in an act of worship, when we know that God is not worshipped with men's hands (Acts 17:25). The ancient Jews were not to understand their animal sacrifices for worship as financial expenditures. The financial expenditures (tithes) they brought for the service and maintenance of the temple, the priesthood, the poor, etc. were brought very consciously outside of worship. For further reading, I would commend this page.
 
Parakaleo said:
In my judgment, it is only partially off topic since some here have implied that a pastor would want to bring financial gifts to the church as an act of worship. It's pretty jarring to think that financial gifts (our livelihood, our life) should be brought to God in an act of worship, when we know that God is not worshipped with men's hands (Acts 17:25). The ancient Jews were not to understand their animal sacrifices for worship as financial expenditures. The financial expenditures (tithes) they brought for the service and maintenance of the temple, the priesthood, the poor, etc. were brought very consciously outside of worship. For further reading, I would commend this page.
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Respectfully, I was clear about it being off topic to what I was looking for as the OP. I understand that threads take their own shape, and the OP has only so much control over the direction. However, I was clear about encouraging you to post in another thread. Reasserting your opposition and insisting on saying your argument brings the conversation to a different place. So, you didn't really respect my request. This seems to be an important hill for you. I respect that, but it isn't a part of this conversation.
 
J.L. Allen said:
Respectfully, I was clear about it being off topic to what I was looking for as the OP. I understand that threads take their own shape, and the OP has only so much control over the direction. However, I was clear about encouraging you to post in another thread. Reasserting your opposition and insisting on saying your argument brings the conversation to a different place. So, you didn't really respect my request. This seems to be an important hill for you. I respect that, but it isn't a part of this conversation.
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Fair enough.
 
py3ak said:
it just seems odd to have a proportion of my giving be for my own support.
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I get that perspective but tithes support more than just the minister's salary. Think of your tithe as supporting the rent, utilities, evangelism, supplies, and everything else in the church budget apart from your salary.
 
Andres said:
Think of your tithe as supporting the rent, utilities, evangelism, supplies, and everything else in the church budget apart from your salary.
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I know what your saying here, but on the other hand intra-entity funds are effectively fungible, so I also see where Ruben is coming from. To use an extremely profane example, Dr. Fauci claimed that the money U.S. taxpayers were sending to the Wuhan laboratory didn't fund any of the gain-of-function research into coronaviruses that they were doing, but only for other purely innocuous research...
 
Well, one should give to the church where they are a member. In most Presbyterian churches the minister isn't a member of the church, but of the Presbytery. So an argument can be made that the pastor shouldn't need to give to the congregation he pastors. Thinking about it, the ushers never seem to pass the plate to the preacher. Although I do recall seeing a pastor not leading worship one Sunday putting something in the plate back before the days of electronic giving.
 
I give generously to my church above 10%. The reason is because it’s not just my employer, it’s my church home. It really is the hub of my and my family’s social life. (This was true even before I became a pastor - our church family is always the hub of our social life.) My family and I enjoy numerous relationships there and are nourished by the ministries there and are strengthened by all the “benefits” and “opportunities” given members so it seems self-evident that my family and I would take seriously the need to participate in helping “carry the weight” by fulfilling the duties/responsibilities of membership. Among those is financial giving. Additionally we are always quick to sign up to bring meals to the sick or to families when a mommy gives birth - not because I’m “the pastor” and I need to do it to because people expect the pastor to do it, but because this is our church home and this is what Christians do for each other. For me it really is a basic and self-evident part of my Christian walk.

Honestly, I think it is sad that this is even a question or that it is treated like something I must be told to do by a constitutional document.
 
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Andres said:
I get that perspective but tithes support more than just the minister's salary. Think of your tithe as supporting the rent, utilities, evangelism, supplies, and everything else in the church budget apart from your salary.
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I understand. I think of my giving as supporting the extension work of the church in the things that the consistory and congregation have decided are worthy endeavors outside of the immediate functioning of each week. Due to a shared facility, our treasurer appreciates having gifts designated for the English or Spanish side of the ministry.
 
py3ak said:
It's not a principle with me, but it just seems odd to have a proportion of my giving be for my own support.
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Kind of like a government employee having to pay income taxes… taxes pay their wages…. And they then pay taxes off those wages. In my many years of military service hardly a day went by when I didn’t hear someone complain about “paying their own salary” by having to pay taxes. :D

But for me I just think about it in terms of the ordinary duty of a Christian to support with their giving the place at which they are being shepherded.
 
SolaScriptura said:
Kind of like a government employee having to pay income taxes… taxes pay their wages…. And they then pay taxes off those wages. In my many years of military service hardly a day went by when I didn’t hear someone complain about “paying their own salary” by having to pay taxes.
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Similar, but also different since in my case I'm not complaining about having to give, I'm trying to give in such a way that I'm not the beneficiary of the giving.
 
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