Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
I received this email awhile back and have been working on a response to the individual that sent it to me. When I first conversed with this lady and her son they both seemingly understood the doctrines of Grace. Upon a devastating event the mother was comforted by some in the Catholic Church who seem to be swaying her understanding of the Scriptures. This women considers herself well versed and grounded. She's raised seven Children and she's now in her eighties, giving her the understanding that SHE is to teach ME (which is biblical, but under the circumstances, she is profoundly incorrect in her direction!) What's more, both she and her son are seriously pondering joining the ranks of this unbiblical church organization AND their doctrine!
I was hoping, before I sent my reply, that some of the sound people of these boards may help with this task.
Thank you all.
and I quote:
Personal Saviour ?
Â
Acts 4.10-12: "Peter said that the whole house of ISRAEL must understand that he had healed a cripple by the power of Jesus - no mention of a personal saviour, but he did say that the rejected Jesus is the Head [the external angle] of the corner - the Cornerstone, and that there is no other Name by which we [Israelites] must be saved. Again no personal Saviour for you. Acts 2.36-38: Again Peter tells the whole House of Israel to acknowledge that Jesus is both Lord [Son of God] and Christ, the Messiah. [the answer to Who is He? but nothing about a personal Saviour.] After they did that and were cut to the heart, Peter ordered the multitude to repent and purpose to stop rejecting the WILL of God, and be baptized, every one of them, in the Name of Jesus Christ [whom Peter has just said is Messiah and God] with a view to the remission of their sins, corporately, as part of the Body, NT Israel.. [redemption is of the Body] Acts 2.21: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Peter did not command the "whosoever" to ask Jesus for forgiveness of sins, or to take Jesus for a personal Saviour from sin.
1Timothy 1.1: "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our [not individual] Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;" [Mary is the only person ever recorded by God as saying "God is MY Saviour."]
1Tim 1.15: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners [corporately, not individually, see v.1&2 "our Father"&"our Lord", v.12&14 "our Lord"]; of whom I am chief [sinner in church]."
1Tim 1.3,7,11: "Charge some that they teach no other doctrine." Paul´s doctrine is supreme.
1Tim.1.16: "them which should hereafter believe on Him [obey] to life everlasting.
John 6.51-58: I am the LIVING BREAD [Jesus, Messiah, came in the flesh] which came down from heaven: if any man eat of THIS BREAD [My flesh], he SHALL live for ever: and the bread that I WILL give is My flesh, which I WILL give for the LIFE of the WORLD. 53 Then Jesus said unto the Jews, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man [Mary´s Son], and DRINK His blood, ye have NO LIFE in you. [No mention of believing anything, except what He just said, and there was no written New Testament then.]
54 Whoso EATS My flesh, and DRINKS My blood, HATH eternal life; and I WILL raise him up at the last day. 55 For My FLESH is meat indeed, and My BLOOD is drink indeed. 56 He that EATS My FLESH, and DRINKS My BLOOD, dwelleth IN ME, and I IN him. 57 As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father: so [in the same way] he that EATS ME, even he shall LIVE by Me. [Christ obeys the Living Father and LIVES, and similarly we must obey the Living Christ in order to LIVE.] [Nothing about personal saviour]
58 THIS [Jesus] is that BREAD which came down from heaven:. . : he that EATS of THIS BREAD [the flesh of Jesus the Son of Mary] SHALL LIVE for ever. [It cannot be claimed that we have only to believe what Jesus spoke to be in Him and live forever. The words He said MUST be OBEYED by us, the same as the words His Father said were OBEYED by Jesus.]
2Tim.1.10: "But is now made manifest by the appearing of OUR [corporate - not personal] Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought Life and immortality to light through the gospel:" [By EATING Him in the eucharist, as I have just shown from John ch.6.]
2Thess.3.18: "The grace of OUR [corporate] Lord Jesus Christ be with you all [the CHURCH]
Acts 13.23: "Of this man´s seed hath God according to His PROMISE raised unto ISRAEL a Saviour, Jesus." [God´s promise was to raise up a Saviour unto ISRAEL, the NT Church. His promise was not to individuals who broke away at the Reformation. To be truly saved we must be IN THE CHURCH which is the BODY OF Christ, not part of the Anti-Christ.]
Ephesians 5.23: "For the husband is the head [source of woman´s physical life] of the wife, even as Christ is the head [source of spiritual life] of the church: and He is the Saviour of the body. [i.e. He is not our personal Saviour - No one but MARY was ever saved personally.].
Phil.3.20: "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence we look for the Saviour, the L.JC:
Titus 1.4: "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: [So Titus probably called Paul Father] Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ OUR Saviour."
Titus 2.13: "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and OUR Saviour Jesus Christ." [Christ is the Saviour of the BODY corporately, not personally.]
Titus 3.6: "Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;" [as members of the Body, the Church, but not as a personal Saviour for individuals apart from Christ´s Church.]
2Pet.1.10,11: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye DO these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [So as to gain entrance into everlasting life, we must DO as Jesus said in John 6.51-58 as above.]
2Pet. 2.20: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the [not "their", NOT personal] Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, [so the saved can be overcome, as my eldest son was] the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." [Peter, the Chief Apostle, speaks in Christ´s stead.]
Phil.4.2-23: "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life, [Is this an example of Paul´s forgiving sins and using the apostolic power of the KEYS to announce whose names are in the Book of Life?] in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God [by an intercessor?]
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you. [The RC Church is called the Church of God´s Peace]
20 Now unto God and OUR Father be glory for ever and ever. [corporately glorifying God.]
21 Salute every saint IN Christ Jesus. [Christ said JOHN 6.56 He that EATS My FLESH, and DRINKS My BLOOD, dwelleth IN ME, and I IN him. So this church obeys Him in that.]
23 The grace of OUR Lord Jesus Christ be with YOU ALL. [This was the CHURCH at Philippi where Lydia and the Jailor were]
Answers in general: The Beatitudes are NOT Moses Decalogue, which was and is abolished.
Matt.15.3-9 - The Traditions of the apostles are NOT the traditions of men, but are the spoken Words and commandments of Christ.. The traditions of the Reformers are traditions of men.
The Athanasian Creed [bought from Guido´s Reformed Bookshop] says -Paragraph 1. "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly." The last Paragraph reads: "This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." One thing it says we must believe is that OUR Lord Jesus Christ is Man because He received the substance of His mother, born in the world. Love Rona. So don´t say that we don´t have to be in the Apostolic Church to be saved.
End Quote
I received this email awhile back and have been working on a response to the individual that sent it to me. When I first conversed with this lady and her son they both seemingly understood the doctrines of Grace. Upon a devastating event the mother was comforted by some in the Catholic Church who seem to be swaying her understanding of the Scriptures. This women considers herself well versed and grounded. She's raised seven Children and she's now in her eighties, giving her the understanding that SHE is to teach ME (which is biblical, but under the circumstances, she is profoundly incorrect in her direction!) What's more, both she and her son are seriously pondering joining the ranks of this unbiblical church organization AND their doctrine!
I was hoping, before I sent my reply, that some of the sound people of these boards may help with this task.
Thank you all.
and I quote:
Personal Saviour ?
Â
Acts 4.10-12: "Peter said that the whole house of ISRAEL must understand that he had healed a cripple by the power of Jesus - no mention of a personal saviour, but he did say that the rejected Jesus is the Head [the external angle] of the corner - the Cornerstone, and that there is no other Name by which we [Israelites] must be saved. Again no personal Saviour for you. Acts 2.36-38: Again Peter tells the whole House of Israel to acknowledge that Jesus is both Lord [Son of God] and Christ, the Messiah. [the answer to Who is He? but nothing about a personal Saviour.] After they did that and were cut to the heart, Peter ordered the multitude to repent and purpose to stop rejecting the WILL of God, and be baptized, every one of them, in the Name of Jesus Christ [whom Peter has just said is Messiah and God] with a view to the remission of their sins, corporately, as part of the Body, NT Israel.. [redemption is of the Body] Acts 2.21: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Peter did not command the "whosoever" to ask Jesus for forgiveness of sins, or to take Jesus for a personal Saviour from sin.
1Timothy 1.1: "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our [not individual] Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;" [Mary is the only person ever recorded by God as saying "God is MY Saviour."]
1Tim 1.15: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners [corporately, not individually, see v.1&2 "our Father"&"our Lord", v.12&14 "our Lord"]; of whom I am chief [sinner in church]."
1Tim 1.3,7,11: "Charge some that they teach no other doctrine." Paul´s doctrine is supreme.
1Tim.1.16: "them which should hereafter believe on Him [obey] to life everlasting.
John 6.51-58: I am the LIVING BREAD [Jesus, Messiah, came in the flesh] which came down from heaven: if any man eat of THIS BREAD [My flesh], he SHALL live for ever: and the bread that I WILL give is My flesh, which I WILL give for the LIFE of the WORLD. 53 Then Jesus said unto the Jews, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye EAT the flesh of the Son of man [Mary´s Son], and DRINK His blood, ye have NO LIFE in you. [No mention of believing anything, except what He just said, and there was no written New Testament then.]
54 Whoso EATS My flesh, and DRINKS My blood, HATH eternal life; and I WILL raise him up at the last day. 55 For My FLESH is meat indeed, and My BLOOD is drink indeed. 56 He that EATS My FLESH, and DRINKS My BLOOD, dwelleth IN ME, and I IN him. 57 As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father: so [in the same way] he that EATS ME, even he shall LIVE by Me. [Christ obeys the Living Father and LIVES, and similarly we must obey the Living Christ in order to LIVE.] [Nothing about personal saviour]
58 THIS [Jesus] is that BREAD which came down from heaven:. . : he that EATS of THIS BREAD [the flesh of Jesus the Son of Mary] SHALL LIVE for ever. [It cannot be claimed that we have only to believe what Jesus spoke to be in Him and live forever. The words He said MUST be OBEYED by us, the same as the words His Father said were OBEYED by Jesus.]
2Tim.1.10: "But is now made manifest by the appearing of OUR [corporate - not personal] Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought Life and immortality to light through the gospel:" [By EATING Him in the eucharist, as I have just shown from John ch.6.]
2Thess.3.18: "The grace of OUR [corporate] Lord Jesus Christ be with you all [the CHURCH]
Acts 13.23: "Of this man´s seed hath God according to His PROMISE raised unto ISRAEL a Saviour, Jesus." [God´s promise was to raise up a Saviour unto ISRAEL, the NT Church. His promise was not to individuals who broke away at the Reformation. To be truly saved we must be IN THE CHURCH which is the BODY OF Christ, not part of the Anti-Christ.]
Ephesians 5.23: "For the husband is the head [source of woman´s physical life] of the wife, even as Christ is the head [source of spiritual life] of the church: and He is the Saviour of the body. [i.e. He is not our personal Saviour - No one but MARY was ever saved personally.].
Phil.3.20: "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence we look for the Saviour, the L.JC:
Titus 1.4: "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: [So Titus probably called Paul Father] Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ OUR Saviour."
Titus 2.13: "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and OUR Saviour Jesus Christ." [Christ is the Saviour of the BODY corporately, not personally.]
Titus 3.6: "Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;" [as members of the Body, the Church, but not as a personal Saviour for individuals apart from Christ´s Church.]
2Pet.1.10,11: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye DO these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [So as to gain entrance into everlasting life, we must DO as Jesus said in John 6.51-58 as above.]
2Pet. 2.20: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the [not "their", NOT personal] Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, [so the saved can be overcome, as my eldest son was] the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." [Peter, the Chief Apostle, speaks in Christ´s stead.]
Phil.4.2-23: "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life, [Is this an example of Paul´s forgiving sins and using the apostolic power of the KEYS to announce whose names are in the Book of Life?] in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God [by an intercessor?]
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you. [The RC Church is called the Church of God´s Peace]
20 Now unto God and OUR Father be glory for ever and ever. [corporately glorifying God.]
21 Salute every saint IN Christ Jesus. [Christ said JOHN 6.56 He that EATS My FLESH, and DRINKS My BLOOD, dwelleth IN ME, and I IN him. So this church obeys Him in that.]
23 The grace of OUR Lord Jesus Christ be with YOU ALL. [This was the CHURCH at Philippi where Lydia and the Jailor were]
Answers in general: The Beatitudes are NOT Moses Decalogue, which was and is abolished.
Matt.15.3-9 - The Traditions of the apostles are NOT the traditions of men, but are the spoken Words and commandments of Christ.. The traditions of the Reformers are traditions of men.
The Athanasian Creed [bought from Guido´s Reformed Bookshop] says -Paragraph 1. "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly." The last Paragraph reads: "This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." One thing it says we must believe is that OUR Lord Jesus Christ is Man because He received the substance of His mother, born in the world. Love Rona. So don´t say that we don´t have to be in the Apostolic Church to be saved.
End Quote
