Piper's message to Obama on abortion

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mvdm

Puritan Board Junior
Approximately 3 minute clip excerpt from a sermon. Would that more ministers have the clarity and courage to call abortion for what it is:

[video=youtube;iChgieH1TPc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iChgieH1TPc[/video]
 

LawrenceU

Puritan Board Doctor
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
 

D. Paul

Puritan Board Sophomore
I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?


btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?:confused:
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
Well, Lawrence, at least one 'conservative Reformed man' thinks differently from that quote, and agrees with you:

Christ Church PCA Blog Archive Standing Firm for Life

-----Added 1/28/2009 at 05:02:18 EST-----

I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?
Donald,

As I mentioned to my congregation last Sunday, read 2 Kings 10:28, and ask yourself if you were an Israelite after decades of Ahab rule, if you would have ever dreamed you would hear those words.

That is our hope for the scourge of abortion.
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
It should make you want to puke. It is really sad how the R2K theology will not even stand up for the unborn.
 

reformedcop

Puritan Board Freshman
Amen to the content of this clip!! I too applaud John Piper for having the courage to put this out there.

But, I have to say the timing is horrible! Obama made absolutely no bones about what what his first act as president would be when he was on the campaign trail. It would have been good to have this video circulating then.

:2cents:
 

LawrenceU

Puritan Board Doctor
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
Wow. That is absurd. Since when was murder a political issue? Since when was it a political issue to be avoided? Disgusting.
It has been a political issue ever since Roe v. Wade. Or so we are told. The sad thing is that many in the church have drunk the Kool-Aid.
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
Wow. That is absurd. Since when was murder a political issue? Since when was it a political issue to be avoided? Disgusting.
It has been a political issue ever since Roe v. Wade. Or so we are told. The sad thing is that many in the church have drunk the Kool-Aid.
It is an especially ridiculous accusation to make, given that Piper is not a political preacher.
 

No Longer A Libertine

Puritan Board Senior
Wow. That is absurd. Since when was murder a political issue? Since when was it a political issue to be avoided? Disgusting.
It has been a political issue ever since Roe v. Wade. Or so we are told. The sad thing is that many in the church have drunk the Kool-Aid.
It is an especially ridiculous accusation to make, given that Piper is not a political preacher.
He also went out of his way to be gracious and submissive to Obama.
 

ManleyBeasley

Puritan Board Junior
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
Whoever made that comment should be ashamed of himself. To claim that abortion is merely a political issue is the rhetoric of the godless.
 

Craig

Puritan Board Senior
'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.
Hopefully that "man" blots out portions like this from his bible:

Psalm 10:17-18
17 O LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble;
You will strengthen their heart, You will incline Your ear
18 To vindicate the orphan and the oppressed,
So that man who is of the earth will no longer cause terror.
 

swilson

Puritan Board Freshman
Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...

simply a thought...not a statement
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...

simply a thought...not a statement
The Lord can use anyone for His purposes. It is one reason why I think the Church needs more OT history in her preaching. 2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?
Sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but why do you say Jehu was unbeliever? He did not forsake the sins of idolarty, but he did seem to be a believer in Jehovah.
 

Ivan

Pastor
Preaching against killing children has NOTHING to do with politics! Preaching against maiming women who have abortions has NOTHING to do with politics! It is those who PROMOTE abortion who are of the political bent. They use their political agenda for the most evil of purposes and the result is as horrible as all the death camps of the all dictators who sucked this earth of human life.

And, no, I don't feel any better after my rant!
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?
Sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but why do you say Jehu was unbeliever? He did not forsake the sins of idolarty, but he did seem to be a believer in Jehovah.
The language is rather of political motivation than reality. Hosea 1:4 cites his sin of slaying the Judahites at Jezreel:
And the LORD said to him, "Call his name Jezreel, for in just a little while I will punish the house of Jehu for the blood of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel. (Hos 1:4 ESV)
And 2 Kings recounts more than the "standard" idolatry. No king of Israel who followed in the sins of Jeroboam is well spoken of. It is part and parcel of unbelief:

But Jehu did not turn aside from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin--that is, the golden calves that were in Bethel and in Dan. (2Ki 10:29 ESV)
But there is also this:
But Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart. He did not turn from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel to sin. (2Ki 10:31 ESV)
for which he was judged:
In those days the LORD began to cut off parts of Israel. Hazael defeated them throughout the territory of Israel: 33 from the Jordan eastward, all the land of Gilead, the Gadites, and the Reubenites, and the Manassites, from Aroer, which is by the Valley of the Arnon, that is, Gilead and Bashan. (2Ki 10:32-33 ESV)
It is true that Jehu did execute judgment upon Ahab's line and Israel for Baal worship. But so did Hazael.
 

mvdm

Puritan Board Junior
I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?


btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?:confused:

I wondered that as well. He doesn't say who the "those of us" is that he had in mind, and I would suggest that should be little reason to have rejoiced at this man's election. Nonetheless, Piper comes back to his point by directly confronting the magistrate on the abominable sin and praying for conversion.

-----Added 1/28/2009 at 08:51:50 EST-----

Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...

simply a thought...not a statement
The Lord can use anyone for His purposes. It is one reason why I think the Church needs more OT history in her preaching. 2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?
Amen. And by the power of the Spirit, this would be good antidote to the new fringe "reformed" dispensationalism of the radical 2k theology which leaves the kingdom of God confined to the edges of the church parking lot.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
I'm glad to see a minister speaking up and out about things, rather than being fearful of "political talk" and "tax exemption"
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?


btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?:confused:

I wondered that as well. He doesn't say who the "those of us" is that he had in mind, and I would suggest that should be little reason to have rejoiced at this man's election. Nonetheless, Piper comes back to his point by directly confronting the magistrate on the abominable sin and praying for conversion.
I think it is possible to rejoice in the fact that the United States has gone so far beyond past racism that an African-American was elected President, without implying that we are blessed by the person of Barack Obama as President.

To keep using my (ever present on the mind) analogy - we could rejoice in Jehu's purge of Baal, without being happy that he ended up as king.
 

sotzo

Puritan Board Sophomore
I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?


btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?:confused:

I wondered that as well. He doesn't say who the "those of us" is that he had in mind, and I would suggest that should be little reason to have rejoiced at this man's election. Nonetheless, Piper comes back to his point by directly confronting the magistrate on the abominable sin and praying for conversion.
I think it is possible to rejoice in the fact that the United States has gone so far beyond past racism that an African-American was elected President, without implying that we are blessed by the person of Barack Obama as President.

To keep using my (ever present on the mind) analogy - we could rejoice in Jehu's purge of Baal, without being happy that he ended up as king.
Well put.
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
Jehu's Cool. There I've said it.

As to the OP -

Joel 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, And Edom shall be a desolate wilderness; For the violence against the children of Judah, Because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
 

LawrenceU

Puritan Board Doctor
In re-reading this thread I thought I had better clear something up in one of my posts about abortion being political. I strongly disagree that abortion is primarily a political issue. It is first and foremost a moral issue before Almighty God.

Actually every 'political' issue is a moral issue. Politics/Policy is merely the outworking of morals in the public/governmental sector. Christians would be wise to realise this and not allow the state to muzzle us by crying 'Politics!' at every turn where we would disagree based upon Scriptural grounds with the current emphasis. We would also be wise to use the term 'policy' in discussion. Politics can and usually should refer to the debate, cajoling, and dealing by the men involved in making policy.
 
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