My question is in regard to classical presbyterian stance : What of the security of the believer in Christ? Is it held that God "if you will" preserves them? What of apostates? Augustine later decided that a "real" Christian could under certain (and rather vague conditions we glean from Augustine) walk away and never come back...that said I do not wish to create two threads in one I want some good solid Godly PB feedback in regard to Five Point Calvinist on this issue. I always thought that whole.....well if they were really saved they would not have walked away was a cop out. Augustine felt it could happen. So, my five point friends! Can a true Christian lose his/her salvation?