Reconsidering Logos Puritan pre-pubs

[Broadus]

New to Logos, I have ordered quite a few of the projected Puritan pre-pubs. As many of you know, I have questioned the value of the Logos titles, even at the pre-pub prices, over their free PBB counterparts.

Like everyone else, I'm dealing with finances that are getting stretched with increased fuel and food prices, so they become even more limited. If I purchase the Puritan pre-pubs, I will have to delay longer the acquiring of copyrighted resources such as commentaries.

If I were doing academic research, the Logos public-domain works, in my opinion, would be a no-brainer. However, the principle of opportunity cost is always at work. Whatever resources I purchase, there are others I will be unable to purchase. However, since there are so many good PBB Puritan works available, these Puritan titles can still be had and incorporated in one's Logos library. They can be searched and the "cursor over" Scripture references produces the verse in a popup window, just like the Logos versions.

Then again, you hate to let the pre-pub prices go . . . . However, I think Logos is just getting into Puritan works, and they will be coming out with new pre-pubs for some time, which would require the continual putting off of copyrighted sources I want to purchase.

Any thoughts from my Logos-savvy brethren?

Bill

 

[Kenneth_Murphy]

From some tests I've run, it looks like a PBB is pretty good if you use it as your primary document. By that I mean, that you are reading a PBB and when you come across things in that reading you then look up additional information in your library. You can't as easily link into things but you can by just an extra step paste what you are wanting to search on in a appropriate logos resource and then move around as normal to read the secondary information. PBB's are more problematic when you are trying to use them as your secondary source. IE if you are preparing a sermon on a range of verses and wanted to know all the comments a certain puritan made regarding those verses, you will have a hard time finding all the references in a PBB. If the puritan work is a Logos book and has a verse citied then you can find that verse using "range" searches that you can't do via a PBB resource. I definitely think that the most powerful books for logos format are reference works like lexicons. Standard books are not nearly as useful in logos format overall. However, there are still some benefits over a plan PBB. You described it perfectly with looking at the opportunity cost and your budget.

I'm blessed in that I have a strong budget, I also don't own any of these books in paper form, so I'm not losing value by duplicating things I already own. Also, I'm likely to have to write some papers on the puritans in those sets so being able to maximally search can only help to strengthen my papers. But if I did end up in a money crunch I would cut out a general purtian set long before I would cut out a set of commentaries or a dictionary etc.

I've also noticed that some pre-pubs are better deals than others. So you can always cut out ones first that have a PBB alternate and also where the pre-pub vs sales price are pretty close. Then you aren't out so much if you decide to buy the collection later on.

I'm also finding that the "default" logos setup is not optimized at all which has made using it so far pretty inefficient compared to the "potential" if things were customized. I've been reading through all the helps and have improved things for myself quite a bit so far. Once I get things settled the rest of the way in a week or so I'm going to put out a reference thread on configuring Logos to help others out and to provide a place for other users to contribute their ideas on setting up Logos.

 

[DMcFadden]

As I have indicated before, there is no penalty for editing your pre-pub list and deleting something for which you experience buyer's remorse. So, it is probably best to sign up for the ones you think you will buy and decide later on if you need to back out of some of the pre-pubs for budgetary reasons.

For my own use, I am too cheap to purchase everything Logos puts out. So, if I have it in Ages format, I may not purchase it in Libronix, especially if it is available in a PB. Unless you are writing academic papers or teaching, it just makes no stewardship sense to keep buying Logos books just because they are there.

 

[Broadus]

I agree with all points made above, and I look forward to Kenneth's reference thread.

I have a decent printed library which includes Owen's set. As much as I would love to have Owen's set in Logos, it's the type of work that I enjoy taking down a bound book and reading. Having it in Logos as a PBB provides additional utility. I hesitate at paying (now) $225 for the Logos Libronix version when I would like to acquire, say, MacArthur's commentaries.

There is so much I have to learn about Logos in order to make better assessments about what will be the best purchases for my needs, but I surely see Dennis' point. For now, I suspect, and because of the principle of opportunity cost, I will probably buy copyrighted works and utilize PBB's in Logos. AGES is another useful option to squeeze the most out of funds. Still, I have a lot of pre-pubs on order that I'll hang onto till it's time to make a final decision.

BTW, Doxa is really worth a look, as Dennis indicated. They are coming out with more good stuff which may not have all the beauty of Logos but is still eminently useful in the CROSS format.

Bill

 

[DMcFadden]

In addition to the price, I think that some of the Doxa stuff is the "best of breed" among any of the software providers. For example, the The Westminster Confession Commentary Collection features 8 titles and over 1,400 pages for under $10! The way you can set your windows and hyperlink between the confession and the various commentaries is just about as elegant as software gets in 2008.

In a perfect world, I would prefer to have all of my electronic sources in a common platform. However, as some have already objected in other threads on PB to Logos' supposedly Microsoft-esque business practices, it is great to see a small company willing to give away good stuff (e.g., Founder's Journal and Dever's Polity), and sell the great stuff for really incredible prices.

 

[Broadus]

Dennis,

I agree with your assessment of Doxa. Their focus on Reformed material is to be appreciated.

While I realize that you yourself have not made these charges against Logos, I've read some of the threads accusing Logs of "Microsoft-esque" business practices, but I don't buy into the conspiracy theories, not even about Microsoft, and I'm about as cynical as they come. One could make charges against Apple with their proprietary hardware or about almost every other successful business venture. Such theories are driven by a populist success-envy mentality as much as anything else, In my humble opinion.

Doxa is a small venture doing great work and I hope they have great success, but we wouldn't have the selections nor the quality of resource capabilities which Logos offers if Logos were not a for-profit company that attempted to grow and take good care of its employees. Their material costs more than I want to pay (doesn't almost everything?), but no one holds a gun to my head and forces me to buy. I could have gone with WORDsearch, but I compared their prices and offerings and considered Logos the better option. Conspiracy theories aside, Logos must be doing something right, considering their longevity in a business that has seen many come and go.

Back to my OP, Phil Gons at Logos has taken my query and is going to write a blog spelling out how Logos Libronix and PBB Libronix public domain works compare and contrast. That should provide some additional insight.

Bill

 

[DMcFadden]

Dennis,

I agree with your assessment of Doxa. Their focus on Reformed material is to be appreciated.

While I realize that you yourself have not made these charges against Logos, I've read some of the threads accusing Logs of "Microsoft-esque" business practices, but I don't buy into the conspiracy theories, not even about Microsoft, and I'm about as cynical as they come. One could make charges against Apple with their proprietary hardware or about almost every other successful business venture. Such theories are driven by a populist success-envy mentality as much as anything else, In my humble opinion.

Doxa is a small venture doing great work and I hope they have great success, but we wouldn't have the selections nor the quality of resource capabilities which Logos offers if Logos were not a for-profit company that attempted to grow and take good care of its employees. Their material costs more than I want to pay (doesn't almost everything?), but no one holds a gun to my head and forces me to buy. I could have gone with WORDsearch, but I compared their prices and offerings and considered Logos the better option. Conspiracy theories aside, Logos must be doing something right, considering their longevity in a business that has seen many come and go.

Back to my OP, Phil Gons at Logos has taken my query and is going to write a blog spelling out how Logos Libronix and PBB Libronix public domain works compare and contrast. That should provide some additional insight.

Bill

Bill,

I agree. I purchase from Logos for the same reason I buy a particular car, microwave, or MP3 player: features and price. I am under no illusions about the "ministry" of Logos, but certainly appreciate their amazing array of products (cf. theological books published by a company owned by a secular firm). Folks like Doxa occupy a different place in my thinking. I view them the way I do some of the small Reformed boutique publishers. Their commitment to ministry, truth, and serving the Reformed community cheers me and deserves to be applauded and patronized.

So for me, it will be "both and," not "either or." As great as Logos is, it can't touch the Westminster Confession Collection by Doxa, nor would they ever come near the $9.95 price. Nor does Doxa have anything to compare with the depth and breadth of Reformed resources available in Libronix. That's why my current computer needed a 250 GB capacity! All of that Bible software by all of those different companies takes up LOTS of space.

 

[Broadus]

Yep. My "massive" 160GB hard drive on my notebook is getting smaller every day, and I'm not nearly where you are in a digital library.

Bill