Revelation 16

[T.A.G.]

What do these judgments mean? Specifically verses 4-6? Are there any good articles or videos I could look at for these.

---------- Post added at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

I guess what I am asking is this referring to Jerusalem here?

 

[larryjf]

Verse 6 is very interesting to me...

For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!" (Rev 16:6)


Taking that together with...

so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. (Luk 11:50-51)


"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Mat 23:29-36)


I think Revelation may be speaking of the fulfillment of the judgment that Christ promised would happen to the generation that He spoke to.

It's even more compelling when we see that the word translated "earth" in this chapter can also be translated as "land"...perhaps a reference to the "Promised Land"

 

[T.A.G.]

cool deal, thats what I was leaning towards but I wanted to make sure that was the case. I just watched Ken Gentry on it as well, and he agrees. The book of Revelation is not my cup of tea but I have to prepare a sermon for NT preaching class and wanted to make sure I was not going off the deep end.

 

[larryjf]

It's not the easiest book to preach from....no matter what stance you preach from there will always be plenty of room for others to disagree with you. And some folks can be quite militant in their views on Revelation.

 

[Peairtach]

I don't know if the bowls refer to judgements on first century Jerusalem. Gentry would take this view, so that the seals, the trumpets and the bowls are all put into the first century.

Bahnsen believed that Babylon was Pagan Rome rather than Jerusalem and so viewed the bowls as judgements leading to the end of the Roman Empire.

If you view Babylon as being apostate Christianity, dominated by the Church of Rome, and the Beast from the Sea as being persecutory, pagan and secularised civil government in all ages, the bowls may still be with us, because these powers have not yet been defeated by Christ through His Church, by His Word, Spirit and Providence.

The seals and trumpets may be associated with the first century destruction of Jerusalem and may be an expansion in apocalyptic language of the first part of the Olivet Discourse to Matt. 24: 35.

The bowls/vials are called the seven last plagues and when these providences have been used by Christ to free the worldwide Church from apostasy and persecution and when the Church and State have been thoroughly Christianised, we may enjoy better days, typified in the OT by Solomon's reign :-

And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon. (I Kings 4:25)

Or you may believe with the amils that substantive Christianisation of Church, State and Culture is a wild pipe dream and the Church under Christ will always be frustrated and countered by the forces of evil in history. I agree this is a difficult area.

 

[Peairtach]

The theme of water being turned to blood is of course from the Egyptian Plagues and the message is "Let my people go!" and that Church, State and Society, either Jewish (First Century) or Christian (Present Day) have been turned into a veritable Egypt from which Christ as our Moses-Joshua will emancipate His people the true Church in history, by His Word, Spirit and Providence.

In Revelation 16: 4-7, according to my "historical preterist" postmil view that would be "Let my people go from the power, presence, persecution, dead hand and deleterious effects and persecutions of an apostate Church - i.e. Roman Catholicism, Greek Catholicism and Liberal Protestantism - and unsanctified civil government and paganised society, into a better state of things where all these things will be truly Christianised."

Civil government and society has been unsanctified and paganism allowed its place since the time of Constantine, when it looked as if one of the heads of the beast had been slain but it was healed (Revelation 13:3), and Christianity's final triumph was delayed until the future - including our future - and there was an abortive Christian "triumph".

In Revelation's Seven Trumpets where the Egyptian Plagues theme crops up, the message according to a "historical preterist" view would be "Let my Christian people go from under the dead hand of the Judaistic apostasy!"

 

[Parsifal23]

I would say it's referring to Jerusalem during the A.D. 70 invasion but as far as specifics who knows I could suggest reading Josephus for a historical context but as far as commentaries or videos I am drawing a blank right now.

 

[YXU]

By far the most convincing argument I have read is E.B. Elliott's book. He understands the earth, the sea and the rivers and fountains of rivers as actual locality and interpretes the vials as subsequent events to the French Revolution. You can find the book at google books or archive.org.