Romans 5:10

[InSlaveryToChrist]

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” (Romans 5:10)

Today I ran across to a four-point Calvinists, who rejected Limited Atonement. His claim was that Christ death purchased the salvation of all human beings, yet only those who believe by the enablement of the Holy Spirit have access to the benefits of redemption (sounds like Amyraldianism, yes). His main argument was that if the elect are indeed forgiven of their sins at the moment the atonement was made, why do they still need to believe in Christ? Obviously, this guy's presumption is that the forgiveness of sins equals with full salvation. I led him to Romans 5:10 where the mechanism of redemption is pretty clearly exhibited. I told him to pay especial attention to the words I bolded.

First, I showed him that the passage makes a clear distinction between reconciliation and salvation. In fact, it is even implied that the former leads to the latter: "much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
Secondly, I pointed to the fact that we are reconciled by the death of Christ, whereas we are [fully] saved by His life. I made the point that reconciliation results in forgiveness of sins, it makes us innocent/blameless/sinless before God. I also noted that the priest, who intercedes for the people, never asks their approval -- thus, they are forgiven in spite of their unwillingness to repent (or believe).
Thirdly, I told him what reconciliation does not do, that is, make us righteous before God. And this is, I said, the reason why we still need to believe in Christ to be fully saved. We are no good if we are just innocent beings, who yet do not live up to the law of God. We have no right to reign with Christ, if we are not in Christ. We have no right to claim sonship with the Father, if we are not considered as precious as the only begotten Son in all His excellencies. For this we must have faith in Christ.

But then again, I haven't heard too much discussion regarding the "two-foldness" of redemption, so I have a slight doubt of me being wrong, although I see no error or controversy in my perception of redemption. Correction is always welcome!

 

[Peairtach]

His main argument was that if the elect are indeed forgiven of their sins at the moment the atonement was made, why do they still need to believe in Christ?

The elect aren't forgiven until redemption is applied to them by Christ applying forgiveness and cleansing by His Spirit to them. Redemption has two main aspects. Accomplishment and application. God has a basis for forgiving the elect in what Christ has done at Golgotha, but the elect aren't forgiven until they are forgiven.

among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind (Ephesians 2:3)

And even after we are justified from all our sins past, present and future, our Father is still displeased in a fatherly way with our sins, which is one reason we have to seek forgiveness for sins done after our justification.

See e.g. "Redemption: Accomplished and Applied" by John Murray (Banner of Truth).

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

His main argument was that if the elect are indeed forgiven of their sins at the moment the atonement was made, why do they still need to believe in Christ?

The elect aren't forgiven until redemption is applied to them by Christ applying forgiveness and cleansing by His Spirit to them. Redemption has two main aspects. Accomplishment and application. God has a basis for forgiving the elect in what Christ has done at Golgotha, but the elect aren't forgiven until they are forgiven.

among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind (Ephesians 2:3)

And even after we are justified from all our sins past, present and future, our Father is still displeased in a fatherly way with our sins, which is one reason we have to seek forgiveness for sins done after our justification.

See e.g. "Redemption: Accomplished and Applied" by John Murray (Banner of Truth).

Are you basically saying that just as our justification is dependent on our faith, in the same way our forgiveness of sins is dependent on our repentance -- but that the Holy Spirit must first apply faith and repentance to us, in order for the "substance" of the atonement to be ours, namely, forgiveness of sins and the righteousness of Christ? I think I could agree with that, since it still fits Romans 5:10 perfectly.

 

[Peairtach]

Well e.g. Ephesians 5:2 says that the elect are under God's wrath until they are regenerated and exercise faith.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Well e.g. Ephesians 5:2 says that the elect are under God's wrath until they are regenerated and exercise faith.

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Where does it say "the elect are under God's wrath until they are regenerated and exercise faith?" I think this passage says that we ought to walk in love, if we've indeed been loved and thus regenerated by God, and that Christ's sacrifice has quenched the wrath of God that was on us. Where does it say IN THIS PARTICULAR VERSE that we must be regenerated and exercise faith in order to be in the favor of God? I don't see it.