Street Evangelism - Bike

[Reformed Roman]

God himself entrusted the gospel to us to share.. Using whatever means we have to spread His Word is not man glorifying but God glorifying.. Music will never save anyone... But the gospel saves... Preaching.. Eating.. Anything.. I've seen people saved from nothing but looking at a Christians actions.. Because that can lead to the Word, which changes hearts.. God works through the gospel but this is where we disagree: If preaching is the only means than sharing the hope that is in us means nothing... If sharing the hope that is in us is a good faithful means.. And we can use conversation.. Why not music?? I would never suggest it as the primary tool of evangelism.. But I use my actions, my art, even the way I study should bring people to examine the gospel..

I just don't get the reasoning.. We should share the hope.. But that's somehow not evangelism. We should only share through preaching but only ministers should preach.. We should participate in the great commission but only if we are asked to share the hope within us. We can share Christ through conversations but we can't share Him properly through a song... And if the song is a song that a different culture uses its even more uncomfortable...

I get that many of you aren't saying the points above but the line of reasoning seems foolish.. God uses men to preach.. Does that mean is "man glorifying"??

Using music as a means, your life, your lips, your art, etc. All of these things should show your a Christian and ultimately point people back to Christ and the gospel... All of those things should share the hope within us... I haven't seen a single biblical post to prove otherwise.. It's obvious in scripture we are called to share the hope.. Even participate in the great commission... And also use our actions and lips to glorify God and point people back to the gospel... But we can't use arts as a means to do so? We should leave art in the basement?

And to believe that we should just leave all of our arts away.. And go grab a preacher to preach on the street corner... Beside we can't talk to people about the gospel ourselves?? These are all ideas I'm heading from these posts.. This brother was discouraged from using art to point people to the gospel and discouraged from even going out to share the hope within him.. Called a rock star for wanting to spread the good news..... This is about as anti biblical as you get..

 

[Reformed Roman]

And if sharing the hope within us is good.. And if it is good to paint, to write a song giving praise to God.. And if giving praise to God and sharing music that does so is good.. If sharing the hope that is within us through song is good.. Than what this brother is doing is good... While there are many means, and you may have a preference.. It is good and this brother shouldn't be discouraged from skiing good works that lead people to the Word and the gospel.

But if we can't share the hope that is within us through song.. Pointing back to the Word through song.. We might as well go sing about telephones and paper clips..

If we can agree these are good things there shouldn't be discouragement here.

We could give other recommendations and good encouraging advice.. I think it's more personal to talk to a person vs handing out atract for example.. But we shouldn't keep discouraging people and make assumptions that they are trying to be superstars/rockstars Just because they want to share the hope within them

Ps: I'm making the straw man?? Really? Your . Admitting certain things are good. Certain things are half good and telling people trying to share the gospel makes them a rock star... Trying to share the fall of man and need for Christ.. Apparently that makes me a rock star.. Pointing people away from me but pointing to Christ.. Please tell me where giving the gospel is ever.. Ever... Considered man glorifying in the scripture... Especially when your main motive is the glory of God

And when scripture gives us a principle, we generally see multiple people going out together... We can say it is good to go out with multiple people and recommended.. We don't draw lines where scripture doesn't and assume someone is trying to be a super hero or a rockstar.. That's where your drawing lines scripture doesn't and using your own man made line to bring down others. A more appropriate thing to do is give the brother a loving suggestion to bring others.. Maybe suggest a different way to share the hope if you think hip hop isn't the most appropriate. I think it would have been more helpful to him

 

[a mere housewife]

I was thinking of these verses last night, Philippians 1:

14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Either the church had ordained a number of envious and contentious men, along with 'many' others, or the 'brethren' speaking the word were not all ordained. Regardless (I don't honestly know which!), 'every way' Christ was made known, the apostle Paul rejoiced. -- I was not thinking of this thread with regard to the part about being 'envious or contentious'. I was thinking that joy is an appropriate response, and prayer, to Christ being made known.

(I feel joy even hearing the Peanuts Christmas album in stores at Christmas -- and over the loudspeaker in the store comes the announcement of the gospel in Linus' voice: 'For unto you is born this day in the City of David, a Saviour . . .')

[Edit: this was added after a very clarifying post by Joshua, as an additional thought to the terms he defined -- it's now missing, but I thought it contained some good distinctions and biblical support.]

 

[a mere housewife]

I understand Joshua. No one would have encouraged anyone else to preach Christ -- or do anything whatsoever -- out of envy and strife. But along with that, it seems very important to encourage ourselves to joy and pray for one another in our imperfect witness. Many of us are erring on the side of not taking all the opportunities that come our way (Ruben and I have both known ourselves to be guilty of this).

I have trouble following how what Jay is talking of doing is out of bounds according to that revelation though? He's not claiming to 'preach'. He may have used the term 'evangelise' in a different sense than is used technically above (just as Paul may have used the term 'preach' in a different sense in Philippians -- I'm not sure how to interpret that). But if a conversation at work is legitimate, a conversation in a park near your home is surely not illegitimate. I was reading of how Christians in the far East often go to parks together and set up booths and hand out literature, and spread the gospel in this way. I think it is right to guard against pressuring Christians to feel that they are not doing 'enough', or that their callings are worthless or illegitimate, if they are not engaging in this way. As a child I was made to go door to door with a younger sibling handing out tracts and trying to engage people in conversation -- I wasn't regenerated myself at the time! And I am quite shy in person. This kind of idea of every Christian's real evangelistic calling is something I think it is important to avoid and I'm grateful for those who guard against it. But I'm grateful for those who do feel able to engage others in this way, along with doing well in their callings.

Something I haven't quite understood: is the objection against the music specifically made along lines of Exclusive Psalmody? (I am no fan of much pop music, but one who doesn't see that position in Scripture might need a different line of argument to convince them that a specific cultural vehicle is an illegitimate way to express biblical truth in a non-preaching capacity? Ie, hymns themselves are set to certain cultural forms of music, and vary from culture to culture -- even Psalms: some cultures chant, some have more metrical tunes.)

It's always nice to talk to you, even when we might disagree (or just not communicate our agreement very clearly . Not to descend to ad hominum, but I hope you've bathed and put on cologne relatively recently . . .

 

[Gesetveemet]

At one time in my life I had a hankering to preach on the street, week after week I faithfully stood on the street corner and preformed what I believed was preaching the gospel. Looking back I now see that I was only proclaiming a complete savior, what was lacking is the gospel is only a complete savior "for a complete wretch" so what I
was doing was pressing people to turn without the Holy Spirit plowing the ground first there-by dangerously causing people to miss a step and in effect wanting people to appropriate to themselves a savior on their own assumption.

Thankfully I have since realized that one I was not called and two I was not sent. Sorry if I have strayed from the original post.



.

 

[Reformed Roman]

If by evangelize, you mean preaching the gospel publicly, we can put that aside...

If we are all called to share the hope that is within us and the good news, in various ways, then why is this brother not being encouraged??

You can tell by my posts what I mean. We are using the Word evangelism differently, but the brother wants to share the hope within him and he is being told he's trying to be a super hero because of it...

We might disagree with the application of the great commission.. But that doesn't change the point that a brother has been torn down for sharing the hope within him.. Again. I would always encourage people to go with more people to do so.. But if I mean spread the gospel to others by the word evangelize, which is what I was meaning, there should not be an issue. I appreciate all the posts I can sift through regarding how the word is fully defined in scripture, and how to apply the great commission.

At the same time, the majority of this is irrelevant. My main point is that this brother has been torn down for wanting to share when it is a good thing.. Several people have given reasons why he shouldn't go out but if he's not preaching and simply sharing the hope that is within him through a variety of means, why is anyone discouraging him?

 

[Jeri Tanner]

I want to use my bike for street evangelism. The idea is to be in a park in the neighborhood, every Saturday at the same time. I would like to set up my bike which has a crate mounted on its back rack so I will have some sings on the sides of the crate, and some literature/pamphlets in the crate. I was considering having also some music, and recently I've come across "Reformed Hip Hop". As I have doubts that this king of music may be too worldly, I also see that the lyrics are sound, and the artists interviewed were solid on the doctrine in their interviews (one of them is a member of 10th Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia). My neighborhood is predominantly black and Hispanic, and the young people culturally will most likely identify with this kind of music/art. It may be impossible anyway since I might need to charge for this, and this would also present legal problems, although I'm not sure.

I would welcome any feedback/ideas.

Thank you

You asked for feedback and ideas. You got some! I think you may not understand the background of some of the things being said. You've said a couple of times that there is no regulative principle for evangelism. But there is a biblical doctrine- a regulation- for every single practice of the church. It often takes study to get to it; not every doctrine of the church can be proof-texted. Evangelism is a command to the church, and thus it is a commission that is to be carried out with great attention and care to what God in his word has prescribed. Until we care more about what God really has said about things than what we already think he has said, we're stuck in views that may need sanctifying. Everyone here wants evangelism to happen. But everyone here (including you I am sure) wants evangelism to happen according to God's will. That's why Christ told his church to pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send out laborers. He sends them out. He sends them through the church recognizing them and sending them. Otherwise, we could all go down to the park and consider ourselves as fulfilling the great commission. ...That sounded snarky and I didn't mean it that way! I appreciate your impulse to share the gospel and witness for Christ. Are the pastors of your church interested in going out to the highways and byways to evangelize?

 

[Jeri Tanner]

I understand Joshua. No one would have encouraged anyone else to preach Christ -- or do anything whatsoever -- out of envy and strife. But along with that, it seems very important to encourage ourselves to joy and pray for one another in our imperfect witness. Many of us are erring on the side of not taking all the opportunities that come our way (Ruben and I have both known ourselves to be guilty of this).

I have trouble following how what Jay is talking of doing is out of bounds according to that revelation though? He's not claiming to 'preach'. He may have used the term 'evangelise' in a different sense than is used technically above (just as Paul may have used the term 'preach' in a different sense in Philippians -- I'm not sure how to interpret that). But if a conversation at work is legitimate, a conversation in a park near your home is surely not illegitimate. I was reading of how Christians in the far East often go to parks together and set up booths and hand out literature, and spread the gospel in this way. I think it is right to guard against pressuring Christians to feel that they are not doing 'enough', or that their callings are worthless or illegitimate, if they are not engaging in this way. As a child I was made to go door to door with a younger sibling handing out tracts and trying to engage people in conversation -- I wasn't regenerated myself at the time! And I am quite shy in person. This kind of idea of every Christian's real evangelistic calling is something I think it is important to avoid and I'm grateful for those who guard against it. But I'm grateful for those who do feel able to engage others in this way, along with doing well in their callings.

Something I haven't quite understood: is the objection against the music specifically made along lines of Exclusive Psalmody? (I am no fan of much pop music, but one who doesn't see that position in Scripture might need a different line of argument to convince them that a specific cultural vehicle is an illegitimate way to express biblical truth in a non-preaching capacity? Ie, hymns themselves are set to certain cultural forms of music, and vary from culture to culture -- even Psalms: some cultures chant, some have more metrical tunes.)

It's always nice to talk to you, even when we might disagree (or just not communicate our agreement very clearly . Not to descend to ad hominum, but I hope you've bathed and put on cologne relatively recently . . .

Heidi, I don't think the issue with the music is identical to the issues of exclusive psalmody, since we're talking about evangelism and not worship. But music is a means/method that must be dealt with- does it have a place, what place does it have, in both (worship and evangelism). Believing that God does have a will about this, and being a believer in the regulative principle and that evangelism is surely a command to the church that is regulated by God, I would say we do better not to make music a part of outreach to unbelievers. It never was at any point in biblical times, and wasn't in times of reform in the church (and not because people wouldn't have liked for it to be!)

 

[MW]

I've seen people saved from nothing but looking at a Christians actions.

That is how you have interpreted it. Bring this experience to the light of the Word and it will be seen differently. Sinners are saved by grace, by the redeeming work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The gospel is a "word," a "message," which tells us what Jesus Christ has done for the salvation of sinners. This message requires faith in the Lord Jesus Christ -- faith in what He has done. No person is saved by looking at the life of another sinful person. It is only by looking to Christ, the sinless One, the righteous One, that a sinner is saved. Sinners need the gospel. They do not need another gospel which is no gospel. Making the works of sinful men a means of salvation is "another gospel."

 

[Reformed Roman]

The works of sinful men glorify God because those works are done by the Holy Spirit. And God can use those works to lead people to the Word, or to a conversation, where they are indeed saved by the message, the Word, the gospel. I'm not saying God saved by it, God saves through the gospel.

 

[Reformed Roman]

"Music will never save anyone... But the gospel saves... Preaching.. Eating.. Anything.. I've seen people saved from nothing but looking at a Christians actions.. Because that can lead to the Word, which changes hearts"

And your clearly taking what I said out of context.... I'm trying not to take it personally because the context was obvious. Notice I said "that can lead to the Word... Which changes hearts" and clearly God is the one who works through the Word to save.. Just like God can use mans actions to prompt people to read the Word.. Or prompt people to ask about Christianity. God uses our lives to bear witness about Him. That doesn't mean He saves through our actions, and in context you should be able to see what I meant by that.

 

[MW]

That doesn't mean He saves through our actions, and in context you should be able to see what I meant by that.

You have sinners looking to sinners as a means of salvation. I reject it, even if you qualify that the works of sinners are serving to prepare others for the Word. It is an error, and one which could have serious spiritual consequences. It makes men dependent on the spirit of the age rather than the Spirit of God. We have seen it in the history of the church and we see it in the history of individual churches today. It is the sure and steady way to declension.

You don't need to take what I say personally; I am not rejecting you; I am rejecting your error. I can distinguish between the two and I hope you can too.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I've seen people saved from nothing but looking at a Christians actions.

That is how you have interpreted it. Bring this experience to the light of the Word and it will be seen differently. Sinners are saved by grace, by the redeeming work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The gospel is a "word," a "message," which tells us what Jesus Christ has done for the salvation of sinners. This message requires faith in the Lord Jesus Christ -- faith in what He has done. No person is saved by looking at the life of another sinful person. It is only by looking to Christ, the sinless One, the righteous One, that a sinner is saved. Sinners need the gospel. They do not need another gospel which is no gospel. Making the works of sinful men a means of salvation is "another gospel."

I don't want to appear insolent Rev. Winner but aren't we suppose to prove what the will of God is by our lives? Romans 12:1-3

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Is not our speech to be edifying that it may minister grace? Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Paul's words called others to be imitators of himself l as he followed Christ? 1 Corinthians 4

4 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

I only mention these things because I would hear these passages and similar passages saying things that make us instruments of grace in His world.

That doesn't mean He saves through our actions, and in context you should be able to see what I meant by that.

You have sinners looking to sinners as a means of salvation. I reject it, even if you qualify that the works of sinners are serving to prepare others for the Word. It is an error, and one which could have serious spiritual consequences. It makes men dependent on the spirit of the age rather than the Spirit of God. We have seen it in the history of the church and we see it in the history of individual churches today. It is the sure and steady way to declension.

You don't need to take what I say personally; I am not rejecting you; I am rejecting your error. I can distinguish between the two and I hope you can too.

That clarifies what I was going to ask.

I would just add a note that I truly have seen many so called conversions due to a means such as (name your cultural music) that didn't pan out years later. God uses His Word by the means of His Church. And Evangelism is much more than a call for salvation. It is life long message of reconciliation with God on many levels. We can't have that without God's ordained means to help and grow us up through all of life.

 

[MW]

Randy, it is good to see you, in the virtual sense.

These passages have a context and we are bound to understand them in their context. One of them is directly related to the unity of the body as it seeks to serve in various ways. Another specifically pertains to speech. Another refers to those who have been set apart to be preachers and teachers of the Word.

I am not denying that there are "moral" actions which adorn the Word. We must be light in the world. Our conversation should be as becomes the gospel of Christ. I am denying that the sinful works of men are in any sense a means of salvation. The appeal to cultural means is a slippery-slope which always leaves its adherents in a broken mess at the bottom of a steep incline.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Randy, it is good to see you, in the virtual sense.

These passages have a context and we are bound to understand them in their context. One of them is directly related to the unity of the body as it seeks to serve in various ways. Another specifically pertains to speech. Another refers to those who have been set apart to be preachers and teachers of the Word.

I am not denying that there are "moral" actions which adorn the Word. We must be light in the world. Our conversation should be as becomes the gospel of Christ. I am denying that the sinful works of men are in any sense a means of salvation. The appeal to cultural means is a slippery-slope which always leaves its adherents in a broken mess at the bottom of a steep incline.

Thank you for filling in the empty spots to my questions Rev. Winzer. You prove what I was desiring to get at. There is a context from where we need to draw meaning and application. Many young men (and many of us older) draw improper conclusions when we start to peel off by ourselves in a direction that we sense others might be neglecting. Proper balance and understanding are very important. Context is King for understanding. So is a humble spirit. As Hebrews 13:7,17 notes, we should listen to our Elders. God gives grace to the humble.

 

[Reformed Roman]

In context I never meant that anything I can do contributes to salvation and I made that perfectly clear in several of my posts..

In the end though we do disagree on the application of the great commission and I feel you radically overephasize the minister when many things in scripture, even acts of kindness are called ministry, . (I still believe of course than many forms of ministry require qualification) I know we differ on these topics which is okay.. I disagree with many as do you and others on the board. Still one in Christ, saved by Him and His grace alone

 

[Pergamum]

That doesn't mean He saves through our actions, and in context you should be able to see what I meant by that.

You have sinners looking to sinners as a means of salvation. I reject it, even if you qualify that the works of sinners are serving to prepare others for the Word. It is an error, and one which could have serious spiritual consequences. It makes men dependent on the spirit of the age rather than the Spirit of God. We have seen it in the history of the church and we see it in the history of individual churches today. It is the sure and steady way to declension.

You don't need to take what I say personally; I am not rejecting you; I am rejecting your error. I can distinguish between the two and I hope you can too.

You seem to be misrepresenting Zach's words and cherry-picking phrases. You even concede Zach's point by asserting the same concept:

I am not denying that there are "moral" actions which adorn the Word. We must be light in the world. Our conversation should be as becomes the gospel of Christ.

Yet, it doesn't seem like Zach is denying this at all, but has already asserted the same thing.

You stated that:

Making the works of sinful men a means of salvation is "another gospel."

Yet the Confessions speak of the "preaching of the Word" as an instrumental means. This preaching is not from a disembodied voice, but the voice comes from men, according to Romans 10 "...And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"

 

[MW]

You seem to be misrepresenting Zach's words and cherry-picking phrases.

Who is cherry-picking? Go back through the discussion. The issue was a particular "cultural" music for sharing the gospel. I opposed the use of this. Zach was defending it. In clarifying my position to Randy I noted that I don't deny a "moral" adorning of the gospel. Unless you are going to make hip-hop "moral" you have to concede a vast difference.

 

[MW]

Yet the Confessions speak of the "preaching of the Word" as an instrumental means. This preaching is not from a disembodied voice, but the voice comes from men, according to Romans 10 "...And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"

The authority of the gospel ministry is in its speaking the word of God; when it is compromised by cultural influences it speaks the wisdom of the world and loses the authority expressed in Romans 10.