The Impassibility of God and Christ’s Human Nature

[lunarWood]

I just finished reading Thomas Goodwin’s The Heart of Christ (Banner of truth, Puritan paperbacks, 2021). After some thoughts and research on older threads on impassibility, I decided to post this thread for more clarity. The corresponding section in Goodwin’s book (in the edition I have) is pp. 101-111, concerning the difference between the affections Christ had on earth, and the affections he now has in heaven.

I still consider myself newly reformed, and so the idea of the impassibility of God is still quite mysterious for me to grasp. I ask for your patience and grace. Consider then the following:

• Christ, while he was on earth, was a man of sorrows acquainted with grief, even to the point of sorrow unto death (Mt. 26:38). He also wept in the case of Lazarus (Jn. 11:35).
• God is without passions. This is to say God doesn’t have emotions like we do. We react to circumstances, but God’s affections are willed by Himself.
• Goodwin states in the book that while on earth, Christ’s affections caused His body distress and sorrow. But now in heaven, with a glorified, risen body, that negative aspect of suffering, affliction, and frailty has ceased, though Christ’s affection towards us sinners remain the same.
• Goodwin admits to a difficulty in distinguishing the manner of Christ’s affections on earth vs. in heaven, so I don’t feel alone (but Goodwin proceeded to write 5 pages to explain...).
• My difficulty lies in how to understand impassibility in Christ’s human nature: It seems that Christ’s affections have an effect on His body (i.e., weeping and sorrow), but now it clearly doesn’t in heaven, according to Goodwin... I will quote this small section on p. 105

So that this may perhaps be one difference, that these affections, so far as in the body of Christ, do not affect his soul, as here they did, thou as then under the command of grace and, reason, to keep their motions from being inordinate or sinful; but further, the soul being now too strong for them, doth at its own arbitrement raise them, and as entirely and immediately stir them as it doth itself.

I appreciate your help in advance.

 

[paranymph]

Your question (or Goodwin's comments) really do not relate to impassibility. Impassibility describes the divine nature, not Christ's human nature. According to his divine nature, the Son of God is impassible. According to his human nature, he has passions. We distinguish.

Goodwin is really speaking about something related to glorification of Christ's human nature, that a glorified human soul does not grow sad based on bodily responses.

 

[lunarWood]

Your question (or Goodwin's comments) really do not relate to impassibility. Impassibility describes the divine nature, not Christ's human nature. According to his divine nature, the Son of God is impassible. According to his human nature, he has passions. We distinguish.

Goodwin is really speaking about something related to glorification of Christ's human nature, that a glorified human soul does not grow sad based on bodily responses.

Ohhh. Thank you for pointing that out. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[earl40]

I wonder how Jesus emphasizes in glory? Is it simply knowing what it felt like to grieve? For I have no doubt there are no tears in heaven....or at least I have hope this is so.

 

[lunarWood]

I wonder how Jesus emphasizes in glory? Is it simply knowing what it felt like to grieve? For I have no doubt there are no tears in heaven....or at least I have hope this is so.

Your question is actually what Goodwin sought to answer in this last section of the book.

Preliminarily, Christ now in heaven

1. sees all of our miseries (Rev. 5:6);
2. and having once been clothed in human frailty and experienced temptation in every respect, He is able (powerfully) to sympathize with our weaknesses (Heb. 4:15). This is akin to how Israelites are to treat strangers well, because they were once strangers in Egypt.

Now to expand these thoughts:

• Christ, being our Head, (and as the head does) is sensible to all the miseries in the body.
• Though Christ is perfectly happy in heaven sitting at the Father’s right hand (Ps. 16), there is another dimension of joy that’s yet incomplete, which is tied to His church, until she should be presented without any spot. Until then, Christ runs to aid her in removing all her infirmities, even for His own glory’s sake.
• Indeed, Christ knows deeply what it feels like to be miserable, because He is truly a man and experienced misery to a degree more than any of us ever could.
• Our sins and miseries do not drive Christ away from us. Rather, they move Him to pity us further, indeed, “What shall separate us from Christ’s love” (Rm. 8:35)? He loves His own body, and though He be angry, the anger is directed at our sin and He ever works till we are sanctified.

I hope I have accurately summarized Goodwin’s thoughts on this matter.

 

[Persequeor]

I don't know if this answers your question, but here is why he wrote it. Quote from my work on Goodwin:

The Heart of Christ in Heaven towards Sinners on Earth was based upon a series of sermons preached in 1643 and was published in 1645.

This may seem a rather strange title, until one has examined his intent more closely. The subtitle sheds a bit more light on his subject: A Treatise demonstrating the Gracious Disposition and Tender Affection of Christ, in His Human Nature now in Glory, unto His Members, under all sorts of Infirmities, either of Sin or Misery. The theme of this treatise is that while it is true that Christ is now in heaven, exalted and glorified; He is still just as much moved in His heart towards sinners on earth as when He was dwelling on the earth. Goodwin wishes to express the fact that Christ's exaltation has not diminished His emotions but rather, has caused them to increase. Christ is still the compassionate One that He was while on earth. He is moved with love and pity as He manifested in His ministry while incarnate in this realm.

Goodwin begins this treatise with a reference to an earlier sermon, "Christ Set Forth,"[1] based on Romans 8:34. In that sermon, Christ is set forth as the object of justifying faith, in His death, resurrection, ascension, intercession, and His seat at the right hand of God. Having covered this subject in the discussion on justifying faith in chapter three, this sermon will not be examined in this work. However, that sermon is highly recommended to the interested reader as a devotional and well-written treatise.

Thus, in the former work he has thoroughly and ably examined the obedience of Christ to His Father in all the aforementioned areas. Now he singles out this office of Christ sitting at God's right hand, and interceding for His people. While in the former sermon Goodwin contemplates the nature of the believer on earth towards Christ in heaven; here he examines the disposition of Christ in heaven towards believers on earth. His purpose in so doing is given:



The drift of this discourse is therefore to ascertain poor souls, that His heart, in respect of pity and compassion, remains the same it was on earth; that He intercedes with the same heart He did here below; and that He is as meek, as gentle, as easy to be entreated, as tender in His bowels; so that they may deal with Him as fairly about the great matter of their salvation, and as hopefully, and upon as easy terms to obtain it of Him, as they might if they had been on earth with Him, and be as familiar with him in all their needs--than which nothing can be more for the comfort and encouragement of those who have given over all other lives but that of faith, and whose souls pursue after strong and entire communion with their Saviour Christ.[2]

To help our faith, he explains the demonstrations under two heads. The first considers extrinsic demonstrations, that is, the objective evidence from the Scripture of the tenderness and immutability of Christ's heart unto us now that He is in heaven, as it was while He was on earth. The second head considers the internal demonstrations, or the subjective.

---

[1]Goodwin, Works, IV:1-91.


[2]ibid., IV: 95-96.

 

[lunarWood]

I don't know if this answers your question, but here is why he wrote it. Quote from my work on Goodwin:

The Heart of Christ in Heaven towards Sinners on Earth was based upon a series of sermons preached in 1643 and was published in 1645.

This may seem a rather strange title, until one has examined his intent more closely. The subtitle sheds a bit more light on his subject: A Treatise demonstrating the Gracious Disposition and Tender Affection of Christ, in His Human Nature now in Glory, unto His Members, under all sorts of Infirmities, either of Sin or Misery. The theme of this treatise is that while it is true that Christ is now in heaven, exalted and glorified; He is still just as much moved in His heart towards sinners on earth as when He was dwelling on the earth. Goodwin wishes to express the fact that Christ's exaltation has not diminished His emotions but rather, has caused them to increase. Christ is still the compassionate One that He was while on earth. He is moved with love and pity as He manifested in His ministry while incarnate in this realm.

Goodwin begins this treatise with a reference to an earlier sermon, "Christ Set Forth,"[1] based on Romans 8:34. In that sermon, Christ is set forth as the object of justifying faith, in His death, resurrection, ascension, intercession, and His seat at the right hand of God. Having covered this subject in the discussion on justifying faith in chapter three, this sermon will not be examined in this work. However, that sermon is highly recommended to the interested reader as a devotional and well-written treatise.

Thus, in the former work he has thoroughly and ably examined the obedience of Christ to His Father in all the aforementioned areas. Now he singles out this office of Christ sitting at God's right hand, and interceding for His people. While in the former sermon Goodwin contemplates the nature of the believer on earth towards Christ in heaven; here he examines the disposition of Christ in heaven towards believers on earth. His purpose in so doing is given:



The drift of this discourse is therefore to ascertain poor souls, that His heart, in respect of pity and compassion, remains the same it was on earth; that He intercedes with the same heart He did here below; and that He is as meek, as gentle, as easy to be entreated, as tender in His bowels; so that they may deal with Him as fairly about the great matter of their salvation, and as hopefully, and upon as easy terms to obtain it of Him, as they might if they had been on earth with Him, and be as familiar with him in all their needs--than which nothing can be more for the comfort and encouragement of those who have given over all other lives but that of faith, and whose souls pursue after strong and entire communion with their Saviour Christ.[2]

To help our faith, he explains the demonstrations under two heads. The first considers extrinsic demonstrations, that is, the objective evidence from the Scripture of the tenderness and immutability of Christ's heart unto us now that He is in heaven, as it was while He was on earth. The second head considers the internal demonstrations, or the subjective.

---

[1]Goodwin, Works, IV:1-91.


[2]ibid., IV: 95-96.

Goodwin himself repeats much of the same in The Heart of Christ in the opening remarks.

 

[earl40]

Your question is actually what Goodwin sought to answer in this last section of the book.

Preliminarily, Christ now in heaven

1. sees all of our miseries (Rev. 5:6);
2. and having once been clothed in human frailty and experienced temptation in every respect, He is able (powerfully) to sympathize with our weaknesses (Heb. 4:15). This is akin to how Israelites are to treat strangers well, because they were once strangers in Egypt.

Now to expand these thoughts:

• Christ, being our Head, (and as the head does) is sensible to all the miseries in the body.
• Though Christ is perfectly happy in heaven sitting at the Father’s right hand (Ps. 16), there is another dimension of joy that’s yet incomplete, which is tied to His church, until she should be presented without any spot. Until then, Christ runs to aid her in removing all her infirmities, even for His own glory’s sake.
• Indeed, Christ knows deeply what it feels like to be miserable, because He is truly a man and experienced misery to a degree more than any of us ever could.
• Our sins and miseries do not drive Christ away from us. Rather, they move Him to pity us further, indeed, “What shall separate us from Christ’s love” (Rm. 8:35)? He loves His own body, and though He be angry, the anger is directed at our sin and He ever works till we are sanctified.

I hope I have accurately summarized Goodwin’s thoughts on this matter.

It seems to me he is saying that Jesus "knows" in the past tense. Of course in Hebrews 4:15 it says He empathizes with us now. This is why inquired because in glory we will be like Him and have no more tears, which seems counter to having empathy which entails pain.

 

[lunarWood]

It seems to me he is saying that Jesus "knows" in the past tense. Of course in Hebrews 4:15 it says He empathizes with us now. This is why inquired because in glory we will be like Him and have no more tears, which seems counter to having empathy which entails pain.

In one of the older threads on impassibility, I came across ideas of a “suffering God” (present tense), which apparently is accepted in wider evangelicalism.

But then again, I always had a hard time distinguishing sympathy and empathy. Heb. 4:15 is firm on the fact that Christ does sympathize, and He does that powerfully. Not sure if that helps.

 

[py3ak]

If we can forget about etymology for a moment, the compassion of Christ involves two elements:
1. Understanding of suffering.
2. Gracious purpose to help.

His earthly experience assures with regard to the first. The promises of Scripture assure as to the second. The joy of Christ is not diminished or clouded by our sorrows, but are an occasion for him to convey his joy to us. We can believe in the tenderness of his love and the comprehensiveness of his understanding of us, without believing that our earthly suffering derogate from his heavenly glory.