Was Hymn Music "Holy" When Written?

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Today much of the church takes what is popular in the world, and will Christianize it and use it in the church. For example, most churches wouldn't play U2 in a worship service, but we will take everything about U2 and put Christian lyrics to it and use it in the church. Is this what happened with the hymns that were written some centuries back? Did they take the music that was popular in the world, using the instruments that were popular in the world, the timing, style, arrangements, etc., and add good theology to it and use it in the church? I say this because we view the hymn style as holy in the church today, but was it separated when it was created? Or were they mainly doing what many churches do today and take secular things and make them Christian? Thanks.

 

[Tom Hart]

While I understand not a lot about music, I do think this to be the case.

One example of a 'converted' tune is the Christmas carol 'What Child is This?' which takes the tune of the Renaissance song 'Greensleeves.

There are stories that some hymns or Christian songs are based on drinking songs, but I am not able to judge how true that is.

The 19th and early 20th centuries saw the composition of almost innumerable hymns. The style of many is like folk songs or ballads that would be in circulation in those days.

It makes sense, right? People will borrow the forms they're used to. Music of all sorts is a product of its time. But does that make it acceptable for worship? Should worship be made to resemble secular music?

I suppose there was once a category for sacred music in the Roman Catholics and Lutherans too. Carrying on from medieval tradition, many of this sacred musical works were written by the most notable composers of their day: Allegri, Praetorius, Vivaldi, Bach, and even Mozart and Beethoven. Those were never intended as popular works, which makes them different from today's 'church music'. (This is part of a larger narrative of the participation of the masses.)

Today, in terms of musical style, Christian music is often at best a knockoff of contemporary secular music, with Christian-sounding words thrown in. Although, often, the words are barely distinguishable as Christian... just a lot about something called 'love' and repetition of statements like 'I wanna be with you'. (Don't even get me started on contemporary worship.)

 

[VictorBravo]

There are stories that some hymns or Christian songs are based on drinking songs, but I am not able to judge how true that is.

Just to clarify one thing, it is often said that Luther collected and wrote hymns to "bar tunes." People took that to mean drinking songs.

But that is a mistake. A bar tune refers to "bar form" which was a musical structure for the stanzas. Luther's bar forms generally were variations on an AAB structure.

So, at least in the time of Luther, hymns were not drinking tunes.

 

[MW]

From Thomas Hall's exposition of Amos 6:5:

There is a grave, composed, pious music, by which contemplation is promoted, the affections are moved, sadness is expelled, the spirits are raised and revived, composed and fitted for God's service and praise; and to this end the most pious and noble spirited men have used it; as Moses, Exod. 15; Deborah, Judg. 5; Hezekiah, Isa. 38.20; Jehoshaphat, 2 Chron. 22.27, 28; the Levites, Neh. 12.27; 1 Chron. 9.33; and the saints, Rev. 14.2, 3...

There is a light, loose, lustful, profane, emasculating music, whereby the corruptions which are in the heart are excited, and the fear of God is expelled. Job brings in the wicked with their timbrel and harp, rejoicing at the sound of the organ, Job 21.12, 13. Against such the Prophet denounceth a woe, Isa. 5.11, 12, and 24.8, 9.

 

[Andres]

I say this because we view the hymn style as holy in the church today

Not everyone...

 

[Cymro]

I think it was General Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, who said something like, why let the devil have all the good tunes? A friend told me last week that Calvin seconded a professional musician to compose suitable tunes for the psalms. A lot of modern music removes attention from the words, and manipulates the emotions by rhythms and repetition. Each psalm ought to have a correspondence to and with the words, so that the mind only uses it as a vehicle for the word. When there is the right blend then there is Heavely fragrance in the praise of the saints. The tunes of themselves are not holy, but those who sing them ought to be.

 

[earl40]

From Thomas Hall's exposition of Amos 6:5:

There is a grave, composed, pious music, by which contemplation is promoted, the affections are moved, sadness is expelled, the spirits are raised and revived, composed and fitted for God's service and praise; and to this end the most pious and noble spirited men have used it; as Moses, Exod. 15; Deborah, Judg. 5; Hezekiah, Isa. 38.20; Jehoshaphat, 2 Chron. 22.27, 28; the Levites, Neh. 12.27; 1 Chron. 9.33; and the saints, Rev. 14.2, 3...

There is a light, loose, lustful, profane, emasculating music, whereby the corruptions which are in the heart are excited, and the fear of God is expelled. Job brings in the wicked with their timbrel and harp, rejoicing at the sound of the organ, Job 21.12, 13. Against such the Prophet denounceth a woe, Isa. 5.11, 12, and 24.8, 9.

Thank you for this because your post made me look up the scriptural references, which according to the RPW, shows us what we ought not to do and the woes that attend such.

 

[Jake]

The Scottish psalter has everything in common meter and a few other meters as well. Many common folk songs are in common meter. Some psalter editions I have seen pair folk songs with psalms, such as Auld Lang Syne. Undoubtedly, part of the usefulness of keeping it all in common meter was to make it more approachable to those who weren't musically talented.

I've seen other more modern hymnals from the 18th and 19th centuries which only have meters listed and have no music, so presumably the same could be done there.

 

[Philip]

Some broad historical context:

Before 1500, the only music in worship in the west was chant, which could be monophonic, or more controversially, polyphonic chant, which was considered suspect by some theologians because of its complexity (example). Outside churches, though, carols were popular. These were songs meant for dancing on religious, and often seasonal, themes (hence Christmas carols). The music of these carols was taken from a more vernacular idiom and tended to be accompanied and metered, as opposed to the chants of the church (Agincourt Carol, which is the tune of 155 in Trinity Hymnal).

Luther's reformation saw the re-introduction of corporate singing, and used vernacular forms as well as vernacular language. This was because the vernacular forms were more forgiving to a wide range of voices, but more importantly they required less rehearsal and were easier to remember. The Genevan Psalter followed similar patterns, with complex dance-like tunes drawn from vernacular idioms (though sung monophonically, as per Calvin's instruction). Old 100th is a good example, but would have been sung more up-tempo than in most churches or recordings (again, think dancing).

In the English-speaking world, from the beginning, EP was the universal practice until the 18th century. But tunes tended not to be borrowed from the continent until the House of Hanover arrived in 1714. The Scottish metrical tradition began here, but so also did English metrical tunes like Why Fum'th in Fight and the tradition of "Anglican Chant" or chant tunes meant for corporate use (Good Example though I can't tell if it's 16th century).

The end of exclusive Psalmody in England coincided with the revivalism of the 18th century, and the hymnody of the period up to 1900 follows folk idioms in many respects, even at times taking on a life of its own (for example Sacred Harp or the spiritual). But the 20th century saw the first break, once jazz came on the scene and with it recorded music. This music had roots in folk traditions, but was intended more for performance than for participation, which meant that hymnody developed on a different musical trajectory than popular music for the first time since the reformation.

So as per the original question, we need to consider things like singability by a large group with many voices, something which many worship directors don't think about, but also we need to just write new music. One of the criticisms I have of the traditional-tunes-only crowd is that we need to be writing new music and while I agree that a lot of the "worship music" out there is inadequate, at least it's writing new music. We can and should be adapting popular forms of music, but we need to do so with reverence and with an eye to including as many vocal ranges as possible, which traditional forms do very well.

 

[Philip]

Or were they mainly doing what many churches do today and take secular things and make them Christian?

It is certainly true that many secular tunes have been repurposed as hymn tunes. For example, Londonderry Air ("Danny Boy") and Star of the County Down have been used for many different hymns. Similarly "God Save the Czar" became "Christ the Victorious" the Deutschlandlied became "Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken" and Thaxted (taken from Gustav Holst's "Jupiter" tone poem) became "O God Beyond all Praising."

But again, all of these have singability and a certain gravitas (in the right meter) that makes them appropriate for worship. Conversely, one can sing "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Gilligan's Island" or "House of the Rising Sun" (they're all in common meter) but that's not necessarily wise or appropriate.

 

[Jack K]

one can sing "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Gilligan's Island"

You may have permanently ruined both those songs for me.

 

[Tyrese]

I am not going on record as endorsing uninspired hymns, but I will point out a key difference between hymns and contemporary songs which affects their suitability for congregational singing from a musical standpoint. Hymn tunes, like psalm tunes, are designed for a group to sing in unison. CCM with its heavy syncopation, highly varied note lengths, etc. is designed for solo singing, which is one reason the congregation is typically drowned out by the performing artist.

Great point Austin! In fact most CCM songs should never be sung as a congregation with just a piano. Nothing is worse than singing a CCM song that nobody knows. We don't have to sing songs just because they're 'new'.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

So overall, hymn music wasn't considered a separated style of music during it's time? It would be like us taking the music of our culture today that we think best fits the teachings of the Scriptures, and calling it the church's?

 

[Tom Hart]

Some great points have been made here.

It is not bad in itself to borrow tunes for worship, but we should be attentive to whether the music is appropriate for worship.

Also, music styles from outside the church can be used in worship. (Goudimel's Psalms come to mind–I am assuming that they follow some kind of similar structure to secular music of the period.)

The fault of much of contemporary Christian music is that it is performance, failing to take into account whether a tune is singable by congregations.

I suppose contemporary Christian music lyrics are yet another matter, then. The great hymns (wherever you stand on EP) at least sought to be grounded in biblical themes. Today I don't see that happening with much of what passes for worship music. There is a worship industry that churns out repetitious and even dubious rock concert-style Christian music, and those songs are sung around the world every Sunday.

So, to me, the great error of contemporary worship is twofold: imitation of secular forms (irreverent, inappropriate music; performance) and all too often shallow and mindless lyrics.

This is the kind of thing that's been prodding me to the EP side.

 

[Tom Hart]

So overall, hymn music wasn't considered a separated style of music during it's time? It would be like us taking the music of our culture today that we think best fits the teachings of the Scriptures, and calling it the church's?

I guess that's what's happening. The question is, who gets to decide what best fits the teachings of the Scriptures, or what is suitable for worship?

 

[Philip]

So overall, hymn music wasn't considered a separated style of music during it's time?

That's probably claiming too much. Certainly it was distinct from the church music of previous centuries and drew a lot from vernacular music, but it was still church music. You wouldn't, for example, do madrigals in church, or operas, or even oratorios. In America, I doubt you would have seen much old-time or bluegrass, even though elements of these made their way into church music (and vice versa).

For example, Bach's Cantatas are church music, designed to be used in church during a service. But his St Matthew Passion is a concert work, given its length, meaning that it is a secular work. Even though its topic is theological. Similarly, there are some bluegrass gospel songs that are great for church and others that probably aren't, but are perfectly suitable for other venues (I think of this recent example, as one that's not for church but still great for the concert).

 

[Tom Hart]

Bach's Cantatas are church music, designed to be used in church during a service. But his St Matthew Passion is a concert work, given its length, meaning that it is a secular work. Even though its topic is theological.

Interesting. Is it that the secular works were commissioned by secular authorities, while sacred works were commissioned by ecclesiastical authorities?

 

[Philip]

Interesting. Is it that the secular works were commissioned by secular authorities, while sacred works were commissioned by ecclesiastical authorities?

Not necessarily. In both cases, Bach was commissioned by his patrons, who were secular. It's more what context the music is designed for. The cantatas are arrangements of German hymns meant to be used in a liturgical context. The oratorios (like St Matthew) are simply too long for that purpose, so clearly they're meant for performance.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Since it is the 12th holidays here in Ulster, it may interest you to know that you can sing common metre psalms to the tune of "The Sash."

 

[TheOldCourse]

Some broad historical context:
The Genevan Psalter followed similar patterns, with complex dance-like tunes drawn from vernacular idioms (though sung monophonically, as per Calvin's instruction). Old 100th is a good example, but would have been sung more up-tempo than in most churches or recordings (again, think dancing).

This seems to stand somewhat in opposition to Calvin's own words in his preface to the Genevan Psalter where he states "There must always be concern that the song be neither light nor frivolous, but have gravity and majesty, as Saint Augustine says. And thus there is a great difference between the music one makes to entertain men … and the Psalms which are sung in the church in the presence of God and his angels."

He also notes of the melodies accompanying dishonest vernacular songs "so also the venom and the corruption is distilled to the depths of the heart by the melody".

And finally, "Touching the melody, it has seemed best that it be moderated in the manner we have adopted to carry the weight and majesty appropriate to the subject, and even to be proper for singing in the Church, according to that which has been said."

I have never read anything in Calvin which would suggest that he would find a "dance-like" vernacular melody as one appropriate to congregational song. Where are you sourcing this from? Calvin supported the ban on dancing in Geneva, and, given his view on the association of melody to meaning, I would be quite surprised to find him bringing such melodies into the church. In fact, given the historical context, it seems likely to me that the very "dishonest and shameless songs" he opposes to the psalms in the preface are those dancing songs that the libertines of Geneva were so enamoured of.

 

[johnny]

Coming from an EP position and holding the position of Precentor in our new church.

I was overwhelmed by the many and varied Psalm lyric's and modern tunes that are available.
I don't believe the Church needs any new music, I would prefer we learn the old stuff.
We stick to the Red Split Psalter with the Scottish Metrical Lyrics (Its wonderful)
And also, if we should attend another Reformed Church then at least we have this much in common.

I just don't get this constant need to reinvent the wheel. The existing repertoire is marvellous.

 

[Philip]

Where are you sourcing this from?

I'm sourcing this from the various Genevan Psalter tunes which I've come across and which resemble in meter the dance tunes of Praetorius and others.

Examples from the Genevan Psalter here and here.

Praetorius here.

Notice the similar chordal structures and rhythms (though obviously played a bit too fast for singing in some of the recordings of the Praetorius pieces)

EDIT: My source, For what it's worth, is a local musicologist, who I would be happy to ask about further resources.

 

[Philip]

I just don't get this constant need to reinvent the wheel. The existing repertoire is marvellous.

Because tunes aren't inspired, and part of owning our inheritance as reformed believers is not simply resting on the accomplishments of the past, but building on them.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Was Hymn Music "Holy" When Written?

I agree, John.

Coming from an EP position and holding the position of Precentor in our new church.

I was overwhelmed by the many and varied Psalm lyric's and modern tunes that are available.
I don't believe the Church needs any new music, I would prefer we learn the old stuff.
We stick to the Red Split Psalter with the Scottish Metrical Lyrics (Its wonderful)
And also, if we should attend another Reformed Church then at least we have this much in common.

I just don't get this constant need to reinvent the wheel. The existing repertoire is marvellous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheOldCourse]

Where are you sourcing this from?

I'm sourcing this from the various Genevan Psalter tunes which I've come across and which resemble in meter the dance tunes of Praetorius and others.

Examples from the Genevan Psalter here and here.

Praetorius here.

Notice the similar chordal structures and rhythms (though obviously played a bit too fast for singing in some of the recordings of the Praetorius pieces)

As someone who for some time sang the actual and original Genevan settings to the Psalms (in the Anglo-Genevan Psalter in the CanRC), I would say the original homophonies are a better comparison point than later elaborations, even those from the same composer. Here is Psalm 42 in the original Genevan Psalter, for instance; http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1086792/f95.item.zoom. The ones you link seem more in the style of the German chorale than that of a Genevan homophone.

While there may be some similarities in chordal structure to the secular compositions of the era (and Praetorius was specifically inspired by the German hymnody of the era) there are many differences as well. At their closest, the Genevan settings were extremely restrained and simplified reinterpretations. Now tempo may be harder to pin down--perhaps there is some academic work on it--but those traditions that have maintained the use of the Genevan melodies today use a slower tempo than even most traditional hymnody. Given that Calvin especially was opposed to the aristocratic festive dance parties that Praetorius was later associated with and even excommunicated attendees who did not repent of their dancing, I am disinclined to think that he would concur with a characterization of the settings as dance-like and a close identification of them with the secular music of the period.

 

[Philip]

I am disinclined to think that he would concur with a characterization of the settings as dance-like

I'm more comparing it to the tempos and metres that we are used to in our hymns in the Anglophone world.

At their closest, the Genevan settings were extremely restrained and simplified reinterpretations.

No doubt. My main point is that the sorts of melodies employed are rooted in vernacular forms rather than in chant, which was the church music of previous centuries. Even the division into stanzas is a break from earlier church music toward the vernacular music of the time.

 

[TheOldCourse]

I am disinclined to think that he would concur with a characterization of the settings as dance-like

I'm more comparing it to the tempos and metres that we are used to in our hymns in the Anglophone world.

At their closest, the Genevan settings were extremely restrained and simplified reinterpretations.

No doubt. My main point is that the sorts of melodies employed are rooted in vernacular forms rather than in chant, which was the church music of previous centuries. Even the division into stanzas is a break from earlier church music toward the vernacular music of the time.

Ok, I misunderstood your point then and apologize. There is no doubt it differed from the Latin chanting that preceded it and sought to "deprofessionalize" church music through the vernacular--though there is evidence of Gregorian influence in some of the Psalm settings too. However I just wanted to make clear that Calvin did not follow Luther in how he brought that vernacular into the church. He was highly critical of much secular music of the age and even as he wanted the music to be easily singable by the congregation he wanted to differentiate it from the festive music of the time in its as well as from that of the papists. He also opposed innovation in music and the Genevan council forbid the setting of the Psalms to new melodies for use in congregations once the Genevan Psalter was complete. Calvin strictly opposed polyphony and part-singing even over against Bourgeois who eventually left Geneva in part due to the opposition against him modifying and expanding his own psalm melodies for singing in parts. For instance, quoting Calvin:

"Those songs and melodies which are composed for the mere pleasure of the ear and all they call ornamented music and songs for four parts do not behoove the majesty of the Church and cannot fail greatly to displease God." (Haven't actually found the original source on this quote ib brief review but it's been quoted in multiple older books)

 

[GulfCoast Presbyterian]

Conversely, one can sing "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Gilligan's Island" or "House of the Rising Sun" (they're all in common meter) but that's not necessarily wise or appropriate.

Noooooo! I tried it in my head to see if it would work, and now I have issues (like I didn't already!)

 

[Philip]

Noooooo! I tried it in my head to see if it would work, and now I have issues (like I didn't already!)

In college, a few friends and I had a running joke about singing Emily Dickinson poetry (a lot of which is in common meter) to "Gilligan's Island." As well as "Frosty the Snowman" to the tune of "Judas Maccabeus" by Handel.

Calvin strictly opposed polyphony and part-singing even over against Bourgeois

I had heard that his position pertained only to the specific context of worship and that he was fine with it is private homes and that Bourgeois' harmonies were meant for the latter context.

 

[TheOldCourse]

Noooooo! I tried it in my head to see if it would work, and now I have issues (like I didn't already!)

In college, a few friends and I had a running joke about singing Emily Dickinson poetry (a lot of which is in common meter) to "Gilligan's Island." As well as "Frosty the Snowman" to the tune of "Judas Maccabeus" by Handel.

Calvin strictly opposed polyphony and part-singing even over against Bourgeois

I had heard that his position pertained only to the specific context of worship and that he was fine with it is private homes and that Bourgeois' harmonies were meant for the latter context.

That seems to have been the case but Bourgeois continued to want to bring it into the worship service against the dictates of Calvin and the council. That and the conflict with the Genevan council over Bourgeois modifying psalm settings without prior approval (for which he was actually imprisoned despite it seeming that he did, in fact, have prior permission of some sort according to Calvin) led him to leave Geneva in frustration according to what I've read.