What is Your Stance on the Millenia?

What is Your Stance on the Question of the Millenia?

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A-millennial. We are presently in the period described as the "thousand years" in Revelation 20. In terms of the post-millennial/a-millennial debate, I do not expect to see all the nations of the world turn to Christ prior to His Second Advent, although I do expect to see the Gospel brought to every tribe and tongue. I do see the great apostasy as a future reality.
 
Difference between post and a - postmillenialism has Christ returning to a saved world, amillenialism has Christ returning to save the world. Amillenialism it is.
 
Andres said:
Difference between post and a - postmillenialism has Christ returning to a saved world, amillenialism has Christ returning to save the world. Amillenialism it is.
Click to expand...

I don't know any postmils that would say Christ returns to a "saved world". That's a pretty full statement.
 
Dearly Bought said:
A-millennial. We are presently in the period described as the "thousand years" in Revelation 20. In terms of the post-millennial/a-millennial debate, I do not expect to see all the nations of the world turn to Christ prior to His Second Advent, although I do expect to see the Gospel brought to every tribe and tongue. I do see the great apostasy as a future reality.
Click to expand...

:ditto: Only thing I would add is a partial preterist stance.
 
nicnap: You made that post just so you could say "Post" without getting in trouble for post padding, didn't you? :D

Tentatively amil myself, as I've never taken the time to study it out for myself.
 
Absolutely...no, I just realized the poll wasn't public, so I thought people would want to know who voted how.
 
Postmill/Amill cross. The heavanly reality is ours and it has all been acomplished, Amill, but the visible physical Kingdom of God will overtake the physical kingdoms of this world through the spread of the Gospel, Postmill. In the end God's will will be acomplished and He will be glorified.
 
Difference between post and a - postmillenialism has Christ returning to a saved world, amillenialism has Christ returning to save the world. Amillenialism it is.
Click to expand...

Postmils believe there will be an apostasy before the end, as it says in Revelation 20. Also in Ezekiel 37 which is a kind of commentary on and expansion of, Revelation 20.

(a) Both have a resurrection of God's people (Israel a.k.a. the Israel of God, Jews and Gentiles who believe in "David" a.k.a. the Christ).

(b) Then there is a period of peace and security for God's people in the place God has for them. (The Land a.k.a. the Whole Earth.)

(c) Then there is a rebellion and apostasy under the names of Gog and Magog (a.k.a. a widespread final apostasy)

Christ can't return to save any soul, because the moment He returns either in death or at the End, their destiny is sealed: Heaven or Hell. Christ returns at the Eschaton to judge the world and to save His people from their enemies, not save their souls. Even Christ can't save souls by His Second Advent.

True salvation can only be in history by the Gospel; when Jesus returns it is too late for salvation.

Christ triumphs in history before the End of the World by making a display throughout history of the defeat of His enemies. He will defeat all His and our enemies, Secular Humanism, Islam, Atheism/Agnosticism, and all false religions and beliefs, through His Word, Spirit, Providence and Church and the Whole Earth will enjoy a long period of Christianisation.

But it won't be a perfect world. It will be a Siver rather than a Golden Age. There will still be sin, illness and death. But it will be a more prolonged and deep and genuine period of Christianisation and world peace and prosperity than has been experienced.

YouTube - The Isley Brothers - Harvest For The World

The Church will have moved from her childhood under the provisional elements of the Mosaic Law, through adolescence to maturity.

Christ is greater than Moses or Joshua or David or Solomon. Is He not going to thoroughly defeat His enemies which occupy His Promised Land - this Earth? Of course He is.

Even Solomon had a short period of peace and prosperity, when he ruled the whole Land from the River (Euphrates) to the River (Wadi) of Egypt, and from the East Bank of the Jordan to the Great Sea (Mediterranean), until he threw it away by his apostasy.

Christ isn't going to throw it away, apart from a short period at the end when the Devil will be released to demonstrate the incorrigibility of the Devil and his angelic minions and the incorrigibility of fallen Mankind without the Saving Grace of God.

The Gospel (Word) and Spirit, and the Church and God's Providence, cannot triumph if they do not triumph before the Eschaton (Christ's Second Advent on the Last Day).

The slow process of the Christianisation of the world against Christ's enemies takes too long for His people to believe that it is going to happen thoroughly.

It took over 400 years for the Israelites to take possession of little Canaan by the sword of iron, rather than the Sword of the Spirit.
 
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I'm a Postmillennialist. I'm also a partial preterist, so there isn't a "Tribulation" to complicate my optimistic eschatology. Also, I agree with the late Greg Bahnsen when he said that Postmill seems to be the only position that can adequately explain why the final apostasy in Revelation 20 is such a big deal. In Premill, it's just yet another literal battle fought between a new class of people (children of the Jews who enter the Millennium in mortal bodies). And in Amill, isn't it just more of the same, in that the world just gets worse and worse until Gog and Magog ends it all?
 
so there isn't a "Tribulation" to complicate my optimistic eschatology
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I'm a postmil too who believes that the "Tribulation" talked about by our Lord was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the killing of about 1.1 million Jews, and the dispersal of many Jews around the world.

But wouldn't you agree that many Christians around the world are suffering a degree of tribulation in the form of state and/or ecclesiastical persecution, and that such persecution could yet be experienced in a greater degree by Christians in North America and Europe and other free democracies before there are better days?

Let us postmil Calvinists in the free democracies not think that there is no possibility of any tribulation at all for us or our children by the church or state, before the Earth is Christianised, which blessedness may be centuries from now.

Secular humanism has the seeds of its own destruction in it, but who knows how nasty things will get before true Christianity is on the ascendent again.
 
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This realized amillennialist sees the premil expectation of a thousand-year Golden Age attached to the end of history as the offscouring of the ethnic-Israel-has-yet-to-be-fulfilled syndrome, while the postmil hope tends to be a triumphalist fantasy that foresees the kingdoms of this world submitting to a gradual christianization. Scripture, however, emphasizes the absolute finality of Christ’s saving work on Calvary and the climactic finality of His return to earth. Having fulfilled all the promises of God to Israel (Acts 13:32,33,38,39), the ascended Lord Jesus is now seated triumphantly at the right hand of God in Heaven (Hebrews 1:1-3) and He will return (literally/historically/personally) to punish a world in terminal disobedience.

2 Thess.1:
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord
Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not
God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from
the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

This revelatory day of utter destruction and total renewal is described by both Paul and Peter in parallel passages that deny any opening for either a restored-Israel premil, or a quasi-utopian postmil, interval.

1 Thess. 5:
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh
as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they
shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should
overtake you as a thief.

2 Peter 3:
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the
which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works
that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner
of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new
heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
Can one be confessional and pre-mil?

I think that both the 3FU, the Westminster Standards (and their deviants: Savoy, London Baptist, etc) have room for a- and post-; but I don't see room for being confessional and pre-.

Any thoughts or ideas on that?

Warmly, Nate
 
nleshelman said:
Can one be confessional and pre-mil?

I think that both the 3FU, the Westminster Standards (and their deviants: Savoy, London Baptist, etc) have room for a- and post-; but I don't see room for being confessional and pre-.

Any thoughts or ideas on that?

Warmly, Nate
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What aspect of the WCF would you see as incompatible with (historic) premil? I'm not premil myself, but I've known PCA pastors who were covenant premil, and it wasn't considered a problem. It seems to me that the WCF at least leaves it open.
 
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