What would you do?

[Anton Bruckner]

Let us say you are very poor, and you live in a third world country. An opportunity to stow away on a ship and come to the USA illegally presents itself.

You know even in your illegal status you can earn 100 times what you are earning, and you wouldn't ever face the grim prospects of starvation and total impoverishment ever again. What would you do?

 

[Anton Bruckner]

Don't know man. I am just trying to get some perspective. I want to know how much poverty and dire economic straits burden people to such an extent that they willingly break the laws of a country for economic betterment and opportunity.

I live in NYC and this place is the capital for illegal immigration. There is some carpentry job, delivery job, dish washing job etc that these people always seem to fill, and on the weekends they are clean, well dressed and in full family mode taking their kids to the park to barbecue and play games.

 

[turmeric]

I hear that the largest group of illegal immigrants in NYC are the Irish! What can be driving them? Is it still the Northern Ireland issue?

 

[jsup]

Adding on to Trevor Johnson's comment, I don't think all illegal activities are immoral. If a man stole food only to keep from starving, would we condemn him? Probably not. Considering the poverty I saw in China while I spent 3 weeks there, I wouldn't blame them for trying to get in our country. So, if I were them, I would do anything to improve my family's quality of life.

 

[cwjudyjr]

Adding on to Trevor Johnson's comment, I don't think all illegal activities are immoral. If a man stole food only to keep from starving, would we condemn him? Probably not. Considering the poverty I saw in China while I spent 3 weeks there, I wouldn't blame them for trying to get in our country. So, if I were them, I would do anything to improve my family's quality of life.

Stealing because you are starving is understandable, yet still a sin. Trust the Lord as illustrated by the birds of the sky for our needs, is the biblical teaching.

 

[Anton Bruckner]

Stealing because you are starving is understandable, yet still a sin. Trust the Lord as illustrated by the birds of the sky for our needs, is the biblical teaching.

but how many have that faith. During grad school I had a classmate from another country. We were near graduation and were studying hard for the comprehensive exams. The guy commented that he would marry another man just to get his green card to stay in this country well things eventually worked out for him and he didn't have to go that route, but illegal immigrants seem to have a level of desperation to flee poverty unlike any other.

 

[cwjudyjr]

but how many have that faith. During grad school I had a classmate from another country. We were near graduation and were studying hard for the comprehensive exams. The guy commented that he would marry another man just to get his green card to stay in this country well things eventually worked out for him and he didn't have to go that route, but illegal immigrants seem to have a level of desperation to flee poverty unlike any other.

But is't that the point! It is a point of faith, and being such are we to excuse it away? I know in my life when I have lacked faith and taken the expedient route it has proven disasterous. When I trust God and exercise the faith He has given to me, even though I do so imperfectly, He blesses me.

 

[jsup]

Lawbreaking is a sin. But how is a lost, desperate man going to put his "faith" in the Lord to survive? He can't. As Christians, we should live by faith in Christ in all things (though we don't always). The unsaved man puts his faith in himself to survive (or improve his quality of life). The lost man can't apply living by faith in desperate situations like we can.

 

[BJClark]

jsup;

Lawbreaking is a sin. But how is a lost, desperate man going to put his "faith" in the Lord to survive? He can't. As Christians, we should live by faith in Christ in all things (though we don't always). The unsaved man puts his faith in himself to survive (or improve his quality of life). The lost man can't apply living by faith in desperate situations like we can.

Doesn't make it anyless sinful though does it??

 

[Herald]

Even though I am a Christian I would be sorely tempted to take advantage of a better situation. But there would be no doubt that doing so would be sin. If you're asking whether illegally entering another country is understandable, that is another question. Given the scenario you painted in your OP, who would stand against an individual desiring to provide for his family? But we can use that same strain of logic for robbing a bank or cheating on taxes. The reasons for doing so may be honorable but the acts are inherently sinful.

 

[cwjudyjr]

Well said!

Even though I am a Christian I would be sorely tempted to take advantage of a better situation. But there would be no doubt that doing so would be sin. If you're asking whether illegally entering another country is understandable, that is another question. Given the scenario you painted in your OP, who would stand against an individual desiring to provide for his family? But we can use that same strain of logic for robbing a bank or cheating on taxes. The reasons for doing so may be honorable but the acts are inherently sinful.

Extremely well said!

God Bless,

Conrad

 

[Herald]

Extremely well said!

God Bless,

Conrad

Conrad - as an aside, it's good to see another Marylander on the PB. We need more members from "the Shore." I pass through Centerville often.

 

[sastark]

Let us say you are very poor, and you live in a third world country. An opportunity to stow away on a ship and come to the USA illegally presents itself.

You know even in your illegal status you can earn 100 times what you are earning, and you wouldn't ever face the grim prospects of starvation and total impoverishment ever again. What would you do?

Get on the boat.

 

[sastark]

To elaborate:

First, I think too many of us in the United States have never been in a situation where our families were literally starving to death. We have never been under the threat of imprisonment due to ever-increasing debt. We have never had to fear execution for our political or religious beliefs. Most of us have no idea what it is like to live under these conditions. How then can we answer the question of what would we do in this situation? Yes, we have our ideals (and there is nothing wrong with ideals), but what about when you haven't had a paycheck in six months? A year? Two years? What about after you've lost your home? Your children have to live with relatives just to have a roof over their heads? What about when your pastor is executed for being a Christian? And then your neighbor? And then your sister? That boat to the U.S. starts looking better and better.

Second, is it a sin to break the laws of a country that is not your country? How many of you have smuggled Bibles into countries closed to the Gospel? I know, I know. Spreading the Gospel is not the same as providing food for your family. Of course, it isn't so easy to win dead bodies over to the Lord.

Third, a lot of people who come to this country illegally do so under false pretenses. They have been lied to about how easy it is to gain legal status once they are here. Yes, WE all know that that isn't the case. They don't. They are told things like "Once you get to the U.S. all you have to do is apply for residency and you'll have your Green Card in a couple months." So, to them, yes, they enter illegally, but with the misconception that they will gain legal status easily.

Illegal immigration is not an easy subject and so I hesitate to say someone is sinning by coming to this country illegally. The laws of this land are not sacred and though we are to obey those in authority, I believe providing for one's self and one's family take precedent over bureaucratic dictates of a foreign (from the perspective of the immigrant) nation.

 

[jbergsing]

I was raised that you don't willingly break laws, even those of another country. Nope, I wouldn't do it. Besides, and let's be frank here since we all know what is implied when using the term "illegal alien", Mexico's biggest problem is the corruption that seems to be permiate every level of government. I think we ought to help the citizens of that nation regain control over it's government. They are a proud people. Make things better in their own country and they won't want to come here.

 

[sastark]

John, I assume there were exceptions to the "you don't willingly break laws". Would you renounce Christ, if christianity were illegal? Would you turn over Jews to the Ghestapo? Would you alert the authorities of the house church meeting next to yours? Yes, these are extreme examples, but I think they demonstrate that the issue is more complex than a simple "don't willingly break laws" no matter what.

I do agree that if Mexico weren't corrupt we'd have fewer illegals coming across our Southern border, though.

 

[jbergsing]

John, I assume there were exceptions to the "you don't willingly break laws". Would you renounce Christ, if christianity were illegal? Would you turn over Jews to the Ghestapo? Would you alert the authorities of the house church meeting next to yours? Yes, these are extreme examples, but I think they demonstrate that the issue is more complex than a simple "don't willingly break laws" no matter what.

I do agree that if Mexico weren't corrupt we'd have fewer illegals coming across our Southern border, though.

Yes, those are extreme examples and I'm assuming they were rethorical. The question in the OP isn't that complex. It would take more than my concerns for my own personal comfort to motivate me to stow away on a ship. If I saw the pain and suffering of my wife and/or kids and had this opportunity to stow us all away I'll admit I'd have to consider it. That said, my answer still stands: No I wouldn't do it illegally only for myself.